Why dont Infil's get C4

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by UnluckyFriedKitten, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Linus

    Personally i do not mind, I always stay on the move. I play like a psycho who expects ambushes everywhere.
    But this could not be compatible with the anchored mode of the prowlers, and it could give them an unfair disadvantage when they use their special ability.

    We do not hear the cloak noise from inside a vehicle and we do not see a cloaked infiltraror when we move or when we use the thermal/night vision.
    In no way we could have a chance to make it challenging for an infiltrator to destroy us.
    The sundies are already very vunerable against LA's hoverbombing but if they are defenders around they still can see and kill the threat.

    However it could be fun for an infiltrator to have a better weapon than the emp grenade, in order to annoy or lightly damage the vehicles. Something that could be worth the risk to come close to a vehicle,but C4 is just too powerfull.
  2. Darkelfdruid_LOL

    Ah I see thermal doesn't show cloaked infi. ...

    Well sh*t...the cloak is even more lol than I thought to be while playing on ceres....
  3. Scudmungus

    I'd settle for more claymores.

    I love those little bastardos - SMG Infi got an idea to run rampant?

    Encourage them to proceed with a little more caution.

    Of course, the AP Mines of other factions can sod right off..

  4. Booface

    Thermal vision doesn't see cloak anymore (it used to, along with IRNV and NV). But cloak is terribly unreliable and very dependent on the other guy's settings. The only time you should rely on it is at very long range, where it actually doesn't render you for other folks. At short or mid range, assume anyone can see you plain as day, and is looking for you on account of the loud noise.
  5. Booface

    Also, why not give the Infiltrator C-4 but just one block?

    You could take out already injured tanks, sabotage tanks that are about engage your own faction's tanks, etcetera, but you wouldn't be able to omgwtfbbq MBTs and Lightnings out of nowhere by yourself.
    • Up x 3
  6. Dr. Euthanasia

    You don't even need thermal vision to catch an infiltrator, you just need one other player nearby looking in his direction. Most people who oppose anti-vehicle explosives on the class ignore the most likely scenario where a tank is both deployed and "vulnerable" to C4, and that's when it's surrounded by other tanks and infantrymen. If you drive a tank alone without even a gunner and think that infiltrators with C4 would be overpowered, you're completely missing the point. Anyone could sneak up on you, and the cloak's ability to prevent this class from rendering to your distant allies and being spotted for your convenience are the only advantages it offers an infiltrator over anyone else.
  7. Anvildude

    Not to mention an Infil has less health. That in itself is pretty much enough to offset the 'advantage' of cloaking, without also keeping them from getting things like shotguns and plantable explosives that other classes have access to. You don't see them taking primary weapons away from Engineers because they have access to a free infinite ammunition shielded turret, do you?
  8. kaolla

    only good thing i see would be to make EMP grenade better, and affect vehicule, maybe giving same vision effect that infantery, and maybe slow the movement/ fire rate / block spawn from sendy for like 30 second, thing like that, so you wont be always defence less but not as powerfull as if you had c4
  9. ShinBreaker

    No C4 for infiltrators, why would you give them that much power. Also, giving just one c4 to a infiltrator bad idea too. You'd have a super special c4 infiltrator squad sneak up to a bunch of lightnings on their cloaked flashes and start bombing them.
    As kaolla said, we need to improve our EMP Grenades, so it can effect vehicles some balanced way.
  10. Dr. Euthanasia

    So two Infiltrators per lightning, both of whom buy flashes and are still visible when deploying the explosives and on radar at all times, is too powerful for you?

    Yeah, okay. Sounds totally reasonable to me!
  11. CNR4806

    Seems like a case of bad example.

    Mind you, two blocks of C4s (from two infils) don't just blow up a Lightning. It can also blow up an MBT (2-crew vehicle). Get another infil and you'll blow up a Sunderer (3-crew vehicle). These vehicles are known for having much more important things in their utility slots that proximity radar is pretty much a non-option, especially in the case of the Vanguard and the Sunderer, which utility slots pretty much MUST be mounted with Vanguard shield and S-AMS respectively.

    Flying LAs with C4s are controversial enough, infiltrators with them is flat out OP.
  12. ShinBreaker

    The whole idea of being able to have a C4 is too powerful. It would be easier for infiltrators in groups to take down vehicles. Other classes like Combat Medics/Engineers have it hard when planting C4s into vehicles because they are vulnerable and can be seen clearly, it's basically live or die for them. Compared to Combat Medics/Engineers with C4s, One or more infiltrators will be capable of taking down priority vehicles'/targets in seconds. Maybe you misinterpret when I said, "cloaked flashes and start bombing them." The infiltrators would be able place C4s on their flashes, seek their target, then eject from the flash(uncloaking the vehicle) before it reaches the vehicle and they press the trigger the instant it bumps into it. Why would this be an example of powerful? Because the victim would not expect it. Infiltrators would be able to use cloaking and C4s to destroy a wide range of targets. Not only would they be infiltrators, they would also be assaulters. Giving infiltrators the ability to do something out of their role destroys their purpose.
    I would also like to state that they would even be able to use their C4s to OHK MAX's. I still prefer fleeing away from MAX's due to not having enough gun power to defeat them. Or using cover, and shooting them from time to time. It wouldn't be realistic to give a class with the least HP in the game the power to destroy large targets. They should be able to sabotage bases and get in back of enemy lines.
  13. TheAntiFish

    It would be OP, Regardless of your views on our cloak it's still ridiculously easy to get within C4 range of ANYTHING as an infil. Maybe Ceres enemies are just dense? but then I dont find the cloak to be half as ****e as people claim it is, the idea is to understand that it's not invisibility and the rest falls into place.

    Down with C4 for infils!
  14. VakarisJ

    They're infiltrators, not saboteurs or demomen.

    And yeah, it would make them OP. It would be like the wraith flash, except silent.
  15. Dr. Euthanasia

    Already entirely possible by a single player. If you have Engineer with a rank 1 Utility Belt you can buy a Flash with the Wraith module, load it up with C4, switch to Infiltrator, and detonate it using the Fury. Is that OP? I really couldn't care less. Giving C4 to Infiltrators certainly wouldn't be enabling it any more than it already has been, though.

    To the rest of you, I am not going to be convinced by the broad statement "C4 on Infs is OP!". If you can't provide a reason why there are absolutely no circumstances under which it could be balanced, you're not trying and thus not worth my time. Anything can be balanced with a sufficient counterbalance in place, and if you can't find one, it is either a failure of your effort or imagination.
    • Up x 2
  16. TheAntiFish

    Look at the balancing in the game as it is, You think SoE will get this one right? I think you're lacking the imagination man, Especially if you can't consider the madness that an infil with 1 block of C4 could inflict.
    • Up x 2
  17. Dr. Euthanasia

    I suppose it would take a feat of imagination to invent situations where infiltrators possessing C4 would upset the balance of the game more than slightly, because those situations do not normally exist. You think the cloak is actually effective at sneaking up tanks? I'll bet you've never even tried it before, and why should you have? You have no incentive to sneak up on tanks without C4. Furthermore, with only one brick you'd be specifically targeting wounded vehicles or working with multiple people to take single vehicles down. The former is something we already do by killing people when they get out to repair and the latter dramatically increases our chances of detection, not to mention the fact that two people deserve that kill way more anyways.

    You know what would happen, even if I was somehow wrong about this? Players would adapt. Have you ever considered what the reaction to infiltrators with C4 would be, not based on how they behave today but instead how they would behave a month after the change was implemented? If it actually mattered and we became a threat, well... first off, good. Second, countermeasures to the finally-relevant threat of infiltrators would become more common, such as radar devices and basic eyesight, the twin banes of our only class specific "advantage" when it comes to approaching enemy vehicles.

    Frankly, it's impossible for SOE to screw this up unless they somehow try to make it even more complicated. C4 already exists in the game, and if they gave it to the infiltrator, the result would be easily predictable.
    • Up x 2
  18. TheAntiFish

    Actually i'm having to sneak past tanks at point blank range pretty frequently(I.e. multiple times in one playsession), It's simple. Don't run directly where their turrets are facing and i get away with it 90% of the time. Mostly it's just getting out of the damn spawn rooms (Fist shake @ TR) but there's been plenty of vehicular contact which would have involved my instant death if it wasn't for me cloaking and running away cackling gleefully. Yes we're easy to spot, but that depends on peoples motion tracking skills for the large part (I find as soon as they lose you once, you're pretty much free to do what you want. The cloak isn't perfect but it makes for bloody good camoflauge.)

    The problem doesn't lie with one infiltrator having one brick of C4. Certainly not from a technical standpoint anyway, implementing this would be SoE's balancing fail. You're basing most of your argument on the old "But what difference can one infil with a single brick of C4 make?" logic. The problem lies with there being more than one infiltrator running around at a time. So now imagine trying to take/defend a biolab, against a squad of SMG infils that have found the most efficient loadout in the game. MAX's are suddenly useless. Biolab belongs to invisible 'Splosion crew now.

    It may just be me, but i have no difficulty getting within 5m of any player in the game as long as they haven't LA jumpjetted up one of those inexplicably mild yet unclimable slopes. Be they in Vehicle or MAX, no matter how pointless i could stab any of them i please. This isn't a brag about skill, my K/D ruins any argument i might have about how much i own as an infil, but that's partly the point, i'm not exactly upper-tier and i would have no problem placing a brick of C4 on anything that i can get in reach of.

    Infil C4's would simply be too dangerous, too many infils run around as it is. Thanks to the WDS people are starting to fight with (for now) a hint of cohesion, god helps everyone that wants to try and fight off a group of invisible C4 launching SMG monkeys.
  19. Takoita

    -Obligatory mention of a Boomer/Radiator hybrid idea-

    That's a really good question, OP. That was the first one I've asked myself when I've compared utility slot certlines - especially after all those inflitrator gameplay from PS1 videos on youtube.
  20. Dr. Euthanasia

    If you're avoiding the barrel of a tank, that means you're out of its line of sight and your cloak is doing nothing against it. It's still useful because you aren't rendering to that tank's distant allies, but you'll still show up on radar and the screens of anyone nearby who happens to be looking in your direction. Your own example about leaving camped spawn rooms only confirms this - because you're forced into a situation where you must be within someone's line of sight, the cloak fails and you get caught.

    Infiltrators in Biolabs? Don't make me laugh. If you seriously think the cloak works in Biolabs, I don't even know what to say to you. Squads of LA players who also have SMGs already cause far more havoc than we could ever hope to achieve.

    You still approach from behind, right? What's the point of being "invisible", then? Once again, you place far too much importance on the class you're playing, which only has an advantage at all because it can approach from a distance without rendering. Also, yet again, you're failing to recognize how players would adapt to the increased threat of infiltrators. If they actually watched their backs, you wouldn't be making claims like this, and they don't watch their backs because they aren't sufficiently motivated to do so.

    You really love tossing around the word invisible like it's something our class can be. If several people can get together and achieve something significant, odds are they deserve it unless it's at the expense of another group demonstrating far more effort and cohesion. If two infiltrators destroy one tank driver, they earned it. Simple as that.