Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

I'm guessing it's because the Magrider was normally the "best" tank when it came to reversing QUICKLY and/or strafing away from danger. Now with this buff to other tank's (for lack of a better word) agility, the Magrider's strength is dampened.

I'm not sure if that's what the OP meant, but it's my guess after reading the info.

it's a good thing i started playing TR again, just in time for mag to lose its only advantage (stability)

now i get to play the highest DPS tank that also happens to be the best for AI, all while being the fastest in any direction

give me omniburn and not complete trash velocity and i'll convert back to spandex

One of the Magrider's greatest advantages was its' main weapon stability, allowing it to fire fairly accurately on the move. Now tanks are officially being given turret stabilization, giving this advantage to all of them.

Furthermore, the Magrider's ability to use its' strafe to avoid tank shells only works at range. Within a certain distance the Magrider simply cannot strafe fast enough to avoid a tank with a decent gunner. One of the things SOE wants to do with this tank update is force tanks to engage each other at closer ranges. How will this affect the Magrider's ability to leverage its' strafe to avoid damage?

Is this a joke? Did you not learn the lessons from nerfing the Harasser? If you feel that the "risk vs reward" factor is too great then why was it buffed not even more then 3 months ago? Just revert the resistances back to where they were and problem solved. Why does every aspect of the Lib need to be nerfed in order to "balance" it against other forces. There is no need to nerf something until it is completely useless, or change multiple variables at once. Think like a scientist and use the scientific method and eliminate one variable at a time in order to see what the Cause-Effect relationship is rather than finding a correlation trend, because we all know, CORRELATION DOES NOT = CAUSATION. There are literally more than 50 ways to kill a Lib, with ease, AS THEY ARE NOW even with the high resistances. Here is a quick list of 10 right off the top of my head: AA/AV base turrets, Burster MAXs, Lockons (air and ground), Skyguards, ESFs, other Libs, AV MBTs or Lightnings, Battle Galaxies, AV MANA turrets and Dumb-Fire Rocket Launcers. Before you get you jimmies rustled and say "BUT JAAM I PULL MY MAX AND SKYGUARD* (or enter any AA option here) ALL THE TIME AND I ALWAYS GET KILLED WITHOUT KILLING THE AIR!!!!" Cool story, but you need to remember that there is often 2-3 people in a lib, so you went 1vs2 or even 1vs3 and lost? NO WAY! Try pulling multiple of your air counters and locking down the ENTIRE airspace with just a few dedicated AA personnel. What do you think would win, 3 Burster MAXs or 1 lib with 3 people given the competence level of each player was equal? The MAXs of course. This is not the situation on live server though, the problem is that no one knows how to teamwork 90% of the time. There is one outfit on Mattherson on TR named The Hamburglers, talk to them how just a single squad locks down an entire 1000m radius of airspace AND AV from the ground using only a Sunderer and infantry AA/AV lockons or Burster MAXs. They do it all the time, with great success. The Lib is a gun ship, and to be honest, a fragile one at that when challenged evenly against numbers, sometimes less. A full 3 person Lib team can be taken down by just 1 ESF.

Fair enough. I would love the Dalton to be restored to its former glory.

Ok sounds good.

This is an alright change, as long as anti-personnel damage and MAX damage remains the same, it would still be enticing as a weapon.

Good to hear, this weapon was literally a running joke. Hopefully it deals VERY little damage to vehicles.

This is good. Dread and I would often discuss this as a positive change, even though it is a nerf, because the lib was able go on and on and on without needed to re-arm, where as most vehicles need to re-arm fairly regularly. Please not more than 2/3rds where it is at now otherwise it would be to great of a nerf.

Buff -> Nerf -> Buff -> Nerf.... Same with the other changes, perhaps alter one thing about the gun (test one variable) or maybe buff the Walker against air? Why nerf the Bulldog into the ground, maybe if you want it to be supplemental anti-ground then just reduce its damage to air units. simple.

This. This nerf in itself is a logical fallacy. The Tank Buster has already been nerfed against AA and AV turrets, but why even call it a "Tank Buster" if it wont be able to bust tanks? Might as well call it the Tank Tickler. Maybe the problem isn't that the Tank Buster is too good, it's that the other guns are improper for the role of a liberator and drastically under-powered compared to even ESF nose guns... The Vector and the Spur should have a total re-work and be fixed to properly suited to be a nose gun on a gun-ship. If you want to decrease the range and increase the risk of the liberator then both the Vector and Spur are totally useless.

This is a good idea. Honestly this is the only real change you would need to make to increase the risk/reward factor that you are seeking to achieve. 2 Dalton shots should kill a Lib, just like the good ol' days. I covered a lot of this above, but make this change first, and if it STILL is too "OP" then nerf it further. Like I said before, one variable tested at a time, correlation does not = causation.

These are good changes. One variable being changed, observe results.

The lib changes will make the libs be used like BOMBERS or Ac-130s



So RELAX.


Daltons will bust the armor


Zephers will be in the middle


Shredders will be decent overall but better vs light armor then regular armor(while still doing good damage to armor)


And the duster will be Anti infantry...... after like 2000 buffs to actually make it kill something.



learn to read.


learn to play.

Better roles?! You actually believe this BS? All I see is:
-nerf
-nerf
-nerf
-nerf
-nerf
With SC coming out this is the nail in the coffin for much of the PS2 air community... welcome to CoDside 2

this is to funny.


I have a certed lib myself, and gun for libs alot, and using the weapons for there roles make sense.



Liberators will still be good killing machines, but they won't be killing every single thing so damn effectively.



Liberators Went from gunships/ground support into Dominators of the Air and ground.

This time around they actually have a good idea and such.

> Increased reverse speed/acceleration
I think granting full speed would be overkill, but it's certainly nice to see that survivability is being looked at. Please give the Magrider rear cameras or at least side mirrors.

> Turret stabilization
F*cking fantastic. This will definitely promote more mobile play for the Vanguard and Prowler, which was sorely needed. I don't know how the Magrider will be compensated for this, because at the moment mobile play was its key strength.

> Velocity decreases
F*cking what. If anything, tank ranges should be longer. (Is this how they're trying to make the Vulcan useful?) They are supposed to dominate open terrain (which there is a distinct lack of in the areas that matter), not be brought in even closer against AV turrets and infantry. In return, make G2G missiles fire slightly upward so that they have less chances of colliding with the terrain.
This won't change the A2G game by much, since most things that are being shot on the ground are stationary (sunderers) or slow in comparison (infantry).

> Lib nerf against tank shells
Needed to happen. Not much to say.

> Lib ammo nerf
See above. Now if only ESFs got the same treatment with their secondaries (particularly rockets and Coyotes) to prevent spammability, we could finally start working towards that resupply galaxy.

> Bulldog nerf
Nerfing the AA capabilities is fine (velocity would be good enough), but nerfing A2G is... why. It's the same problem with the TB (rant below this), there is almost no competition. Don't nerf a weapon for being not as bad as the others.

> TB nerf
I'm not going to debate whether or not the weapon was too good for what it did, but I will say that the reason most non-stock libs had it on is because the other options are terrible.
The Vektor might be good on paper, but in-game it's just too hard to keep the nose on a distant moving target (plus it promotes the pilot keeping the vehicle stationary or slowly moving, which is a terrible idea in a heated battle) and it doesn't play to one of the strengths of the lib, the firepower of its gunners.
The Spur also promotes slow liberators, and its ability can't even be utilized with mouse right. I guess that's fine for anyone with a gaming mouse, but not everyone has one. Plus the damage output is even worse than the Vektor.

> Duster buff
Canister: Hey, that means they'll look at me again! Right guys? Guys?
This needed to happen. Funny story from yesterday, I was helping defend/repair a sunderer, and I noticed that one of the libs attacking it was using a Duster. I found out by watching it repeatedly park itself just above it, only for nothing meaningful to happen either to the vehicle or to the people defending it. Eventually the lib got the sunderer, but the Bulldog on the back took the kill.

> RAWKIT PAWDS nerf
Inevitable, whether warranted or not (leaning towards the former). Now how about them Mass Drivers?

> Airhammer nerf
The shotgun was a terrible idea from the start. Please just make it an automatic grenade launcher and solve everyone's problems with it. See, it even exists in real life.

What are you even talking about? 3 slight changes to the lib that no good pilots even asked for happen and all the sudden the lib is "the most OP thing ever" and every little forum warrior scrub is whining... the lib has been fine for the past year and a half... why is this BS happening now???

Im surprised over the ro kedpod nerf. I dong remember last time I felt them being overpowered.

If you do it like it sounds here then it will be a HUGE nerf for magrider...cause with even slower bullets and higher gravity, you can almost outrun that main cannon. Increasing the maneuverability of all tanks makes the small advantage the magrider had there even smaller...and if you do it with the same speed as foward then the tanks will even outrun magrider while driving backwards(circling and hitting the enemy tank from behind was hardly working at the current setup and will then be impossible...it is mandatory for magriders tho if they wanna win a 1vs1). Last but not least it's taking the advantage of a stable main cannon from magriders.
On top of that you want to make tank rounds be able to take down liberators again....but due to the bad angle and slow projectile of the magrider this is again just a buff for the other 2 tanks.

Another thing I don't understand: If you want Libs to be tank busters...why the hell do you make them more vulnerable to tank shells? Shouldn't they be more vulnerable to AA fire then? That they need a nerf is obvious...

And last but not least to high backward speed for tanks is a direct nerf to c4 and will result in a lot of tanks driving into the base, killing 2 infantry and back out backwards again to reload. This is a very annoying strategy if you can perform that with max speed without having to turn around.

So there is a lot to think about....

I guess I'm lucky that I haven't certed anything to my Lib ... i'm a bit disappointed that I just bought the lib bundle 2 days ago and already seeing a nerf? Come on SOE

The liberator changes are long overdue but it is still a sad day for all the old liberator crews who used it before it was completely broken by the update. At least air weapons are finally starting to be held to the same standard of their ground counter-parts and specialized weapons are actually becoming specialized. The rocketpod nerf against vehicles makes me smile with glee.

I haven't used the maggie in a long time but I am still worried about what the turret stabilization for all vehicles and increased reverse speed combined with the lowered effective range will do to it. Hopefully it doesn't mess with tank v tank combat too much but I am sure things will be tweaked later on. I am assuming the reverse speed being the same as forward speed applies to default tanks and the rival/racer relationship with forward and reverse speed remains unchanged. Would be kind of hard trying to go 86km/h in reverse in a lightning

All around cautious optimism so far.

You truly need to rethink/redesign TR Prowler Anchored Mode - if tanks are meant to be mobile and the Prowler has the fastest movement speed, anchored mode is basically quite pointless. Especially given the effective ranges are being further reduced to encourage tanks to get in closer, and tanks are meant to move around so as to avoid C4, etc.

As great as the tank changes are, they will further reinforce the supremacy of the Magrider's mobility and the save me anyday Vanguard Shield, while making Prowler Anchored mode way more useless!!!

no. they dont. only improvment for tank is good thing.
SOE never changes.

My gunner once kill 2 maxes and one peasant with one duster clip. 3 kills in one clip! i think it deserve nerfing already!

The shell drop changes that are being made, I hope the Magrider gets the least drop.

If the Magrider gets the least drop and best velocity, then I would say that we are on fair terms.
If not then yes it is sadly a magrider nerf.

Velocities and drop should be as:-

Prowler>Vanguard>Magrider.

With anchored prowler, having as little drop as the magrider, while un-anchored prowler having the most drop out of the 3 MBTs.

If they give Magrider's the most accurate guns, then that would mean that they can be the most efficient at range, only comparable with the anchored prowler. All depends on if they improve the accuracy of the magrider compared to other tanks. Either by nerfing the other tanks or buffing the magrider.

Thank you. Sweet baby G, thank you.

Seriously, who was the savant who thought a bomber needed a gun for the pilot that had an even higher TTK against armor than even the most powerful belly gun?

Ummm... you forgot to throw in the Liberator.

I always thought it should have been ESF kills Liberator, Liberator kills MBT, MBT kills Lightning/Skyguard, Lightning/Skyguard kills ESF?

Instead it's currently Liberator kills MBT, Skyguard, ESFs are frightened of Liberators, MBTs kill Skyguards, Skyguards can scare ESFs.

Tanks

• Turret stabilization was badly needed, thank you!

• I'm not sure about Tank speed equilibrium, but currently I think this good for tanks in general, I'd suggest buffing benefits rival combat chassis gives, since this is an indirect nerf to it.

• Tank range nerf was uncalled for. if it was against infantry farming that was a bad decision, as most infantry farming problems stem from terrible base design. (Just take one look at Abandoned NS offices)

(Coming from an Anti-Skygod campaign activist BTW)

The liberator is a very high reward low risk vehicle because it can easily fly in and out of fights without taking much damage and out can out-maneuver ESFs.
Multiple times a lib has flown in and Tankbuster+Dalton my Skyguard to death, and that's okay.
What is NOT okay is a lib quickly and silently flying in and Tankbuster+Dalton my Skyguard to death in seconds.

• Making liberators louder and reducing ammo is step in right direction, currently they are quieter than ESF, possibly quietest vehicle in the game, and less ammo should be enough to reduce the farming by a bit.

• Undoing the resistance buffs against dumb-fires and tank-shells was good, it punishes players who stay still too long.

• Liberators needed a mobility nerf, not a range or firepower nerf, I think you messed up really bad here. Please undo these and put in place slower Yaw, Pitch, Roll, & Speed

Liberators need to be slow, cumbersome, bad-*****, taking up damage and dishing it out. But If they want to bomb a base they should have to keep in circles to avoid the dumb-fires. Like they did in the old days.

With the nerf (Or final decision on if they or AV or AI) to Rocket pods. I hope Hornets get a buff, I trialed them once and found them a bit underwhelming at AV work compared to the pods.

The Mustang Air Hammer needs a major buff in the Anti-Infantry department, currently it is worse than the C85-Canister, please do something, else this weapon will go extinct.
Personally I'd suggest doubling or tripling it's current range.

Currently all tank (and max) abilities seem pretty terrible, I'd like to see the lockdown only slow down the prowler, Magburner become omnidirectional and Vanguard shield unnerfed.

I also find tanks not tanky enough for being tanks, they badly resistance buff against infantry.

SOE, before you nerf something, look at all the things you're gonna nerf for that, then remove half that stuff on the nerf list.