Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kevmo, Jun 6, 2014.

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  1. Kevmo Developer

    Tank Changes

    We’ve started on some adjustments that are intended to encourage more exciting and interesting tank game play.

    Currently, when a tank needs to move quickly, their only option is to go forward, which may not always be a good option. It limits the tanks options on how to get into position and can make getting caught in a bad position overly punishing. This encourages players to play overly safe by playing at a slow pace and keeping their distance from threats.

    So here are changes we’re working on to help with these problems:
    • Tank reverse speed and acceleration will be made identical to the tanks forward speed and acceleration.
      • Gives tanks another option to evade when caught in a bad position
      • Allows tanks to retreat without having to expose rear armor
      • Improves a tanks ability to evade C4 and other weapons
    • Primary tank turrets will be stabilized. As the tank goes over rough terrain, the elevation of the turret won’t change with it (unless it hits a constraint).
      • Being able to more reliably fire on the move opens up more tactics
    • Tank effective ranges are being reduced. This consists of adding gravity and slowing down projectiles.
      • This should encourage tanks to get closer to the targets they intend to fight.
    With the above three changes combined we hope to see tanks more involved in the battle. They have to get in closer which is more interesting and exciting, and at the same time are faster and more capable of shooting on the move.

    Liberator Changes

    For Liberators, we need to better balance the risk vs reward factor. We feel the risk for the Liberator is not high enough in most situations. Here are the changes we’re working on to address this:
    • Effective range of Belly guns is being reduced. This consists of slowing down the projectiles.
    We feel the current range makes it too hard for ground forces to defend against the Liberator and makes it too easy for the Liberator to escape once it comes under fire. Lowering the range puts the Liberator more at risk and gives ground forces more time to respond, whether it is ducking for cover or returning fire.
    • Roles of belly guns are being better defined and receiving a reduction in effectiveness versus personnel (except for the duster)
      • Dalton is intended to be the premiere anti-tank weapon
      • Zepher will be similar to Dalton, doing slightly less tank damage, but being slightly better at anti-personnel due to its 6 round magazine
      • Shredder will be similar to Zepher in terms of tank damage, but by virtue of being a chain gun it will be slightly better against fast movers (harassers, aircraft)
      • Duster is intended to be the premiere anti-personnel weapon and will be receiving some buffs
    • Ammo capacity is being lowered on all belly guns
      • This is also part of the risk vs reward. These guns have so much ammo that they can just be spammed. This change is intended to make gunners think about whether or not a shot is a waste of ammo.
    The bulldog will be receiving similar treatment that the belly guns are. Its effective range will be reduced and its roll better defined. Right now it’s good at everything including being better at anti-air than the walker. We’ll be reducing the projectile speed and possibly the blast damage to push it towards its intended role of a supplemental anti-ground weapon.

    The tank buster has a 90+% equip rate and completely eclipses the other nose gun options. It is too effective against heavily armored targets and has improper risk vs reward. We’ll be lowering its damage so that it is closer to the Vektor. It will still be stronger, just not by such a huge margin.

    Finally, the improvements to Liberator stock resistance to tank rounds and some heavy assault rockets made during the Liberator update are being reverted. The original change reduced too much risk. The stock Liberator will be back to being destroyed in around 2 hits from these weapons. Composite armor will still provide additional resistance but will ultimately be less than the current version.

    ESF Changes

    Moving along with the concept that the Liberator is becoming more anti-vehicle, there are some adjustments being done on the ESF side of things:
    • Rocket pod effectiveness against vehicles is being reduced.
      • They are all around to good. Good at killing infantry and good at killing vehicles.
      • Lowering their effectiveness against vehicles further defines the Liberator as the anti-vehicle air option.
    • Air hammer effectiveness against Liberators and other heavy armor vehicles will be reduced.
      • The weapon is capable of doing too much DPS to these targets.
    Edit to include reply:
    Some clarification and answers for some of the common questions / discussion points I've seen.

    Details on the tank velocity changes

    For the tank velocity changes we are looking at adding 1 gravity for all tanks (from 4 to 5) and changing how velocity scales, using Magrider HEAT as the baseline.

    Right now Magrider HEAT has a velocity of 200. That will likely remain unchanged. Currently the next ‘tier’ up (Magrider AP, Prowler HEAT) increases the velocity by 25, and the next ‘tier’ increases it by another 25, and so on. What we are considering is lowering the increases of 25 to increases of 15. So Magrider and Prowler HEAT would end up with 215 instead of 225, Prowler AP and Vanguard HEAT at 230 instead of 250, etc.

    So the Magrider will be the least affected from the velocity change.

    How does the reverse speed change affect Racer / Rival?

    Racer will increase both forward and reverse speeds.
    Rival will no longer have a bonus to reverse speed.

    We realize this may cause Rival to become less attractive and we’ve got some thoughts on how to improve the Rival chassis if this happens.

    Details on Liberator range changes

    Similar to the tank changes, we are using Zepher as a base line and intend to lower the Dalton match the Zepher. Currently Zepher has a velocity of 200 mps (which is identical to a Magrider HEAT round) and we’re considering bringing it down to 175 (which would be identical to a HE tank round).

    Details on Tank Buster changes

    I’m seeing a lot of comments that the issue is not the tank buster is too good, it’s that the other nose guns are bad. And instead we should buff those.

    The simple reply to this is the Tank Buster is so far out of line compared to the other guns, the first step we need to do is bring it closer in line. Once they are closer we can make a better assessment on where the nose guns are and make further adjustments.

    The feedback is tank buster is too good and the numbers back this up (and not just equip rate numbers). The alternate approach does not help us fix that.
    • Up x 116
  2. BiggggBRIM

    • Up x 31
  3. FateJH

    I'm not good at theorycrafting so I'm upvoting this just because it's a developer posting information on the official forums. And that's always worth a good hurrah.

    ... rocket pod reduction again? I hope MAXes are counted as Infantry and not Vehicles for the purposes of this change. If there's any "Vehicle" that still deserves to be podded, it's the MAX Infantry class, especially when armed with Bursters. It just seems--fair.
    • Up x 14
  4. Pikachu

    The retro nerf calls and its bandwagon had effect again. PPA is next I bet. Liberators will now go back to useless again, they lasted like 3 months. :rolleyes:
    • Up x 22
  5. Divinorium

    @tank "buffs"
    Sounds like a nerf. Why i'm not surprised?
    Turret stabilization is good, against VEHICLES. Will help against Infantry? SURE but not as much most of the players believe.
    Bigger reversal speed wouldn't save you from the LA outside of your scout radar.
    Neither of that outweight the nerf on range, making you more likely to get C4ed.
    At the best these changes will help against Rocket launcher and others tanks.

    By the way you guys took the time to test that in the test server?
    • Up x 4
  6. DashRendar

    The good:
    -A developer posting upcoming updates on the forums. Awesome! Should have been this way since day 1.

    The bad:
    -Tank range nerfs (Tanks already have bad range)
    -Liberator range/health nerfs (Libs are already short range by application and are easily killed in the game's meta, a.k.a. still shut out of large fights by default)
    -Airhammer AV nerf with no AI buff (seriously, why? My only regret is not getting Auraxium with it before this happened. It will be far too hard following this "change")
    • Up x 23
  7. Cinnamon

    Are people expected to dodge things fired by libs when they are in tanks? I'm a little confused about what velocity changes are supposed to affect other than leading targets and momentum.

    Tank shell velocity was originally raised because most tanks were finding it too hard to hit magriders. The new solution to this balance issue is that that tanks should now be fighting at such close range that it should not be a balance issue? Not sure about this.
    • Up x 4
  8. Justicia

    So hold on. You are reverting the buffs of the Lib and then nerf it quite a bit further? What was the point of the liberator update?
    • Up x 36
  9. Divinorium

    Show how incompetent they are. Eveyone knew it was a bad idea... but SOE.... reasons....

    PS: altought we still have to see how much the tank nerf will affect libs.
  10. Scr1nRusher



    for balance & psychological intimidation reasons.

    A Giant Gunship shouldn't be more effective at sneaking around then the Stealth class of the game(infiltrator) or a ATV.
    • Up x 14
  11. Kevmo Developer

    Forgot to mention that. Yes, we are looking into ways of making the Liberator audio more noticeable.
    • Up x 56
  12. Pikachu

    We got the afterburner buffed and tailgun firing angle increased. But who knows they might revert that too.
    • Up x 7
  13. metrotw

    The PPA should be nerfed before the liberator. I can't even remember the last time I saw a marauder or canister on a prowler or vanguard. Everyone and their mother spams the PPA from 300 yards out getting cheese kills. They over buffed it without compensating the other 2. Hopefully they don't wait too long before hitting it with the ol' nerf bat.
    • Up x 4
  14. Wargrim

    Turret stabilization? HELL YES!

    But can we please have Anchor Mode removed and refunded? It was problematic before, turning the Prowler into a sitting duck and a glorified self propelled artillery piece that did not mix with our faction specific weapons at all. But if the tank gameplay will change to actual movement warfare ( As i expect it to change in any map area that has enough space after this change, and quite frankly, tank warfare should always have been about manouvering and shooting at the same time. ) it makes lockdown even more of a liability rather than an asset. Last but not least, Anchor Mode was by its very nature only useful for long range combat. ( Well, and for farming infantry. ) The changes to reduce the effective combat range of tanks is another reason to ditch Anchored Mode.

    Also, the Magrider will need a buff to stay competitive. Its only advantage right now is that it can fire on the move and hit, unlike the other tanks. If the other tanks can also do it, the Mag will fall behind without some buff. A bit more speed, a bit less drop on the main guns maybe.

    And while we are at it, please undo the change to spawn lightnings everywhere. Instant tank zergs from every tiny base is a completely ****** up option that does the game no good at all.

    Lib Nerf: It was badly needed, but i am not sure if those changes do not go to far, swinging the Lib pendulum from "OP as Hell" to "UP as Hell".
    • Up x 15
  15. Morchai

    I like all of it. Not sure about the range thing on the tanks because I'm not sure what you guys think long range is, and more importantly how much relearning how to lead a moving target I'm going to have to do. But, I'm sure I'll adjust.

    The only time I ever shot truly long ranges was when I was sitting next to an ammo dispenser and had unlimited ammo anyhow.
  16. Pikachu

    You got to tell me when this stealth buff to PPA happened. Last change to PPA I heard of was at PU2 when damage was nerfed so STK went from 2 to 3 and no longer able to damage heavy armor. In fact its the only PPA change I have ever heard of.
    • Up x 6
  17. Maelthra

    Please tell me you're going to buff Magrider strafe speed and acceleration to make up for this. The Magrider currently cannot strafe fast enough to dodge tank shots within a certain distance. Forcing it to get closer to the battle it only going to make this more apparent.
    • Up x 22
  18. WycliffSlim

    Dear Devs, I will try to remain civil in the face of your... questionable judgement.

    1: Reducing the velocities of the belly guns
    Liberator bellyguns DON'T have long range against anything but static targets and already have very low velocities. To hit a moving tank from 300m with a dalton you have to predict where a target the size of your crosshairs will be in just over 1 second. The shredder isn't too difficult but that's a different suggestion. Nerfing the bellgun velocities will also completely cripple liberators against other aircraft.

    2: Nerfing the tankbuster
    "It's pulled 90% of the time" Yes... it is. Do you know why? It's not because the Tankbuster is too good, it's because the Vektor and the Spur are absolute ****. Not even situationaly ****. Just completely ****. They don't synergize with the Liberator well and they NEVER will even if the tankbuster didn't exist.

    3: Duster buff

    4: Reverting the resistances to Dumbfires/Tank rounds

    5: Increasing Liberator sound

    If you think the Liberator is overperforming then why wasn't it looked at months ago when it was MORE powerful than it is now. I understand that you have to try and help everyone have a good time but if you listen to players who are even moderately organized 95% of them will tell you Liberators are piss easy to counter. Yes, they can poop on 1-12 fights. But, do you know what else can? MAX's, HE tanks, HEAT tanks, 1 competent infantry player, an ESF, a HA with a Jackhammer.

    Encourage people to get into squads and be semi-organized and they're naturally have protection from random Liberators.

    Are liberator perfectly balanced? No. Is nerfing them into oblivion the right answer? Let's ask the Harasser.

    So that they COULD nerf it further. I'm pretty sure that's how SOE gets stuff nerfed. They give it an update(that barely even changes the effectiveness of it) so that everyone starts using it and it gets attention. Then, when everyone starts ******** on the forums(Notice how the complaining is ALREADY dying down) they have an excuse to do what the people want and swoop in to save the day from all the sky chariot gods farming their poor defenseless bodies.
    • Up x 38
  19. Scr1nRusher

    Also, On a sound related note for air units, Do you guys have any plans in the future to Add horns to Liberators & Galaxies?
    • Up x 1
  20. ShortRovnd

    What about the Magburner? Remember that ES ability which can only move the Magrider forward and which consequently has no useful purpose in actual combat. Is that being reworked too?
    • Up x 18
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