Riposte Change

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Venalin, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. Raivene Lorekeeper

    Not true at all. The agro generated on any swing is implied agro (thats what you are calling swing agro) and follow a specific formulate that generates a consistent value for all your swings hit or miss... now that part might not be on a riposte...dunno for sure. The other part is damage done. That is a 1 agro for 1 point of damage thing. So if you whiff a swing you still get the swing agro... but if you hit you get that swing agro plus the amount of DPS you did. Why do you think it is that opening with riposte disc generates huge agro?
  2. Tucoh Augur

    Are you taking into account that the miss check is now done before riposte, dodge, block and parry? The actually change is:

    - The hit/miss check in melee combat now occurs before riposte and other defensive checks.
  3. Raivene Lorekeeper

    The thing you might be thinking of is as far as I know you cannot proc off a riposte. That was changed long ago to nerf shakerpaging (here's a thing I hadn't thought about in a while.
  4. sojero One hit wonder

    Think about what you are saying, how would you keep agro off of a zerker, monk, rogue if that were true.

    a tank doing 200k dps would have no chance on a zerker doing 1.5 mil on a burn, heck even harm touch would be outdone in 3-4 seconds on a burn if that were the case.
  5. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Damage from swings generates 0 aggro.

    All swing aggro is frontloaded. Each attempt to swing is a fixed value based on the weapon your rotation using and several other factors. But a finishing blow critical and a miss generate the same aggro.

    The reason a Furious Disc entry to a fight generates massive aggro is not only do you have your normal auto attack swing aggro but also every Riposte is another swing you are attempting.

    However being that this Riposte Change was a Dzarn posted change I look forward to him showing up and posting some EQknowledge up in here about how aggro works in EQ.
  6. Raivene Lorekeeper

    and if what you say is true then casters who get who get the base damage of every spell they cast (not land) as agro would out agro everyone all day long. Exactly how do you think someone can hold agro off a wizard casting a 24k base damage spell every tick if you are popping 666 agro (thats the amount generated by a invested honed wurmy using you formula) for an average of 2 maybe 3 hits in that same tick?

    There are also agro modifiers that wars use to significantly increase the amount of agro we generate... but the damage done is still part of our agro generation... even from riposte
  7. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    It should be obvious, but just in case it isn't, GamParse is NOT going to give you accurate tanking numbers right now.

    For that matter it doesn't actually give you accurate tanking numbers for older parses either due to some errors I discovered while working on updating it.

    There will be an update Soon(TM). Like a really, really big one.
    Yinla, Brohg, Elyssanda and 2 others like this.
  8. sojero One hit wonder

    We have other tools (discs and spells) that add agro and modifiers (AA, spells, mask) that increase our agro off our swings, that is how we can beat casters, and yes a casters agro is based off their base nuke damage, not the final damage it does, that's why a wizard nuke generates no more agro on a crit than on a non crit. Most melee and casters also have the ability through AA to make their nukes/swings generate less agro, but not enough to make the difference if it was based off damage done instead of swing agro.
  9. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    Because casters have 68% passive aggro reduction from AAs, and 90% aggro reduction for 90s when burning. They also (generally) only cast 1 spell every few seconds and have other aggro reducing abilities. If I turn off SCS it isn't hard to pull aggro from most tanks.

    Damage has nothing to do with melee aggro. I wish it did, but it doesn't and it's unlikely to ever get changed.
    Yinla and gotwar like this.
  10. Raivene Lorekeeper

    Even if I am wrong about the agro from damage, and it's surely possible. As this gents post indicates a riposte swing still generates swing agro. So back to the original thing on this. It doesn't matter which method is used. If you reduce the amount of swings you reduce the agro generated.
  11. sojero One hit wonder

    I don't think reposte gives agro, but if it does as it is considered a standard swing, it is still such a small amount that it is inconsequential to how tanks tank that this change had no noticeable effect on our agro generation.
  12. svann Augur

    If mobs are missing you too much, have you tried taking some armor off?
    Xanathol, Tucoh and Gundolin like this.
  13. Horyuken Augur

    The OP was upset about lower level stuff, removing all armor still might not do the trick because of level gap along with AA's that can't be deactivated.
  14. Irongron New Member

    Stupid change, should have made GMM fixes from the beginning. I'm trying to get my Artisan AUG done, You have already made specific items a rare drop, and now mobs cant be hit off Riposte just makes it all the more 'fun' to do this...

    Ive returned after a few years of leaving...its been this way for 20 years...
  15. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    Simple fix...

    Create a new 1 or 2 tick auto-riposte disc / AA and give it to all of the non-casters & non-healers. Have it work as frontal arc only like deflection. It can even be capped at 10 levels below your character level or whatever killing blow is to avoid it becoming a new "tanking" ability. Stick it on a 30s or 60s refresh and be done with it. That way, it won't change anything challenging and it won't take forever to kill a bunch of trivial mobs.

    You'll just have to push that one button so it's just like Tucoh's dream attack.
    Sheex and Tucoh like this.
  16. Cadira Augur

    Very astute of you Tucoh. I genuinely forgot to comment on the other defensive abilities.

    The dodge, parry, block numbers were lower on the post nerf parse, BUT they were a difference of less than 1%. All of them. I'm talking like, if I dodged 1.5% of the time prenerf, it was maybe 1.3% of the time now. So combining all 3 i probably defended 1 to 2% less than I am now. But if parse for tanking is screwed up as its creator mentioned, who knows how accurate my info is.

    As far as others concerns, based on most of the people's knowledge/anecdotes on game agro mechanics or straight up personal experiences with agro management as well as my own, I think it's safe to say this change will not hinder your ability to keep agro. If you have problems, there are other issues you need to work out desperately.

    As far as it taking 25% longer to solo/molo old content for collects and such, something only a couple classes can do to the extreme extent that they do, well....let's just say I'm taking up violin lessons after work.
    Tucoh likes this.
  17. Gundolin Augur

    So this massive nerf is slowing down your ability to molo three blue cons?
    Cadira likes this.
  18. Ninelder Augur

    If you are wanting AE DPS for farming TS items go to VP and get this Hoarded Worker Sledgemallet or Jeweled Hoarded Worker Sledgemallet. Quested piece drops off Kluzen, The raid version requires one diamond to combine with the group version.
  19. Laronk Augur

    Three current content blue cons at that!

    Really while depending on how many mobs you pull this is a small nerf in the solo/molo play in groups you shouldn't see much change to whole group dps.
    Gundolin likes this.
  20. p2aa Augur

    The 1 point of dmg = 1 hate comes from DD spells if i recall, it ignores spell crit. But it's certainly not 1 melee dmg point = 1 hate point.
    Also as I said it yet I remember having read somewhere a while back that riposte were not generating hate.

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