Riposte Change

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Venalin, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. p2aa Augur

    Your riposte rate is not accurate. Since the 21st April patch which changed riposte message, you are seing now all riposte messages, be them successful or not. The parser registers all your ripostes attempts messages, without checking if it succeeded or not. It's at least half less than what you are seeing. So add 12 % to the hit % and you come with 60 % hits.
  2. Brohg Augur

    we're not voting on this. It's not a matter of opinion. Swings generate agro based on the dmg stat of the weapon. Riposting adds swings, and so adds agro. Riposting less (tanks riposte much less post-patch) is the same 20-some% nerf to agro on non-targeted mobs that it is to damage on those mobs.

    Each riposte (getting the Double Riposte that goes with it, and sometimes an extra Kick!) is over 700 agro with the group Sharpened Angle Brace 1h weapon, over 900 agro with raid Sun 1h weapon. The warrior AE agro button Dragonstrike is 25k agro/minute on a target - you can choose what fraction of that number should count as "small", but then you'll have to back up not meeting that fraction with a log of your actual riposte rate, and then somehow explain how getting that agro continuously instead of just once every 45s is worse
    Koryu likes this.
  3. Solanli Journeyman

    Just took the time to look through the log - all 39 reported (Riposte) were true (Riposte) ... they were not misread by the parser.

    [Fri Sep 20 16:36:08 2019] A Krellnakor scavenger tries to crush YOU, but YOU riposte!
    [Fri Sep 20 16:36:08 2019] You crush a Krellnakor scavenger for 21244 points of damage. (Riposte)
    [Fri Sep 20 16:35:23 2019] A Krellnakor scavenger tries to crush YOU, but misses! (Riposte)
    [Fri Sep 20 16:35:23 2019] You strike a Krellnakor scavenger for 45663 points of damage. (Riposte)
    [Fri Sep 20 16:35:31 2019] A Krellnakor scavenger tries to crush YOU, but YOU riposte!
    [Fri Sep 20 16:35:31 2019] You kick a Krellnakor scavenger for 125262 points of damage. (Riposte)
    [Fri Sep 20 16:35:35 2019] A Krellnakor scavenger tries to hit YOU, but YOU riposte!
    [Fri Sep 20 16:35:35 2019] You kick a Krellnakor scavenger for 163401 points of damage. (Riposte)

    I did not have any reposte's that were unsuccessful included in my log. All of them gave an NPC miss message, followed by me doing repo damage back.

    Maybe GameParse has fixed this issue?
  4. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    I feel like I should be more frustrated with this change than I am. I'm kind of meh about it and I do a fair bit of swarming farming tradeskill items, gems, whatever. It's not like I can't hit the attack key and it's not like actual tanking has been effected in an adverse way (outside ability to dps). The reasoning behind it that it's for server stability isn't bad logic. It's just the way things are in our old world. You certainly can't put this as being as bad a nerf as Pets in RoF, for example. That one cost a lot of subs. This one shouldn't cost any tbh.
  5. svann Augur

    No, I agree with him. Riposte certainly generates enough agro that it will keep me from losing agro to my merc healers just so long as I get them hitting me before the first heal. This is not about opinions its just fact. IDK if its equal to swing damage but thats irrelevant. Its enough to do the job.
  6. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    It's not *wrong*, it is just showing different information than the others. And it is technically more correct than the other defense skills.

    Riposte currently shows your actual riposte rate. As in, if the NPC swings at you 100 times and you riposte 50 times, it shows 50%, regardless of the number of strikethroughs.

    The other defense skills are reduced by strikethrough, which actually makes them less accurate.

    If the NPC swings at you 100 times, and you riposte 50 times, and you parry 25 times but the NPC strikes through your parry 10 times, it shows 15 / (100 - 50 ripostes) = 30%.

    In reality, your parry roll rate is 50%, just like riposte.
  7. Veritas New Member

    I suppose in the interest of being fair they should next raise agro generated by the dps classes while lowering the amount of damage they do. Hmm maybe bring healer agro back to where it was when CH came out .
  8. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    For those interested, may do some this weekend, but want to work on hunters so may be next week. But I have logs from 4 GMM solo runs (level 110 paladin, no tribute, no cliff stone, 2her almost entirely unless needed to flash or deflect, mostly pulls of 2-5 at a time, 2150 hdex with 2her out usually (yeah, I'm a slacker)). I will solo some more and compare before and after.

    Since gamparse isn't reporting everything correctly, and kiz' parse is more limited, I decided to focus on simply analyzing my logs on my own via excel and appropriate use of string queries and then compile the date.

    Paladin double riposte is supposed to be 30%, and bash riposte rate is supposed to be 60% on a riposte roll. My numbers seem to support that. If I take total slash riposte swings, divide by 1.3 to get rid of double messages for single riposte actions, then multiply that by 0.6, the result is extremely close to the bash numbers.

    For reference:

    26624 slash riposte attempts in log including doubles
    divide by 1.3 = 20480 approximate actual slash riposte attempts
    multiple by 0.6 = 12288 expected bash riposte attempts
    actual = 12124, or 98.7% of expected

    I think the sample size is large enough to conclude using those rough numbers is good.

    So I was able to determine that a paladin at 110, using 2her, and with about 2150 hdex at the time, was riposting about 42%+ of actual mob swings.

    Also interesting to note, the mobs were performing strikethroughs of my defenses about 44-45% of the time, while I was only performing strikethroughs of theirs about 14-15% of the time (not related, but interesting).

    The problem with talking about dps and what % of your dps is from riposte, is that the more mobs you pull the higher your dps and the higher % from riposte. I don't have the time to try and use the same method to pull dps numbers, excel is limited, so I'm really going to be looking at actual frequencies of melee/tanking action to try and get to the ultimate issue.

    Those talking about, "well mobs are doing it less now too", seem to be forgetting 2 things:

    1) Why in the world do you think that will be relevant come next expansion? The content will be tuned to what we are capable of tanking, so we will have taken a dps loss for zero survivability increase. So let's just drop that entire argument, please.

    2) I have yet to see any numbers on mob riposte before/after to compare (only a couple of informal numbers so far on PCs), so we don't even know the scale of survivability gain. GMM isn't a good answer for that because the mobs are harder now, so need before/after parses on some other content if someone can provide them.
  9. p2aa Augur

    I said that if it was generating some aggro it was tiny, and your number confirms it. 700 aggro on a mob you don't actively target is too low aggro. Try to have someone AE DPSing the mob you didn't target, not only heal spells cast on you. Dragonstrike Blade will do a better job there, without a doubt.
  10. p2aa Augur

    If the NPC strikethrough your riposte or parry, doesn't it mean that your riposte and parry were not succesful, and therefore you are being hit ?
  11. Baldur Augur

    Doesn't the first person on the aggro list start at a higher aggro than others that come after?

    I could be totally wrong, but I thought that was a thing. If so then doing what you say would not be accurate.
    Allayna likes this.
  12. zarcal Elder

    I am not going to comment on the change itself (not that it matters anyhow), but i will say I don't play a 20+ year old game to re-learn how to play MY STYLE whenever it suits the developers. There should be a rule, if something has existed in live for more than a year, then it should stay.

    Anyhow, today's quick lesson burn in an area i have done it for close to a year was painful. Will i figure it out, sure. But we (and by that i mean the devs) have lost sight of why people generally play this game....
  13. Beimeith Lord of the Game


    You can successfully counter an attack, and just because someone counters your counter doesn't make your first counter "unsuccessful."
  14. kizant Augur

    Wouldn't you be bored if it were just the same old thing all the time? Just think of it this way. You've finally earned enough points to reached the next of gameplay now things really start to get interesting!
    Sancus likes this.
  15. Brohg Augur

  16. Tucoh Augur

    Developers gon' develop.
    Veritas likes this.
  17. Veritas New Member

    They have screwed the game before so why would they care about losing more people who pay for the game now.
  18. Dewey Augur

    This nerf totally messes with rogues ability to molo. It's rediculous that this was changed and it needs to be changed back. If there isn't a ticket item for changing it back I'll create one.
  19. Laronk Augur

    You're just doing a bit less damage on adds. Pull more mobs at a time it'll even out =)

    I wish you the best of luck with your ticket.
  20. Dewey Augur

    As a rogue pulling more mobs while molo'ing is not an option. It doesn't even out, it means you end up at the bind point.

    The saddest thing is this... I bet the devs didn't even think this hurt rogues. I bet they are read and ask how does it effect that class?

    It's a sad sad day...

    Your a mage supporting this change. However, I'll describe it in words that maybe you can understand.

    Imagine a change that made it so you can either have a pet or a merc, but not both. That is the type of change this was to the rogue class.

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