Riposte Change

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Venalin, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. Laronk Augur

    I was actually joking, sorry.

    overall hits on players didn't go up, ripostes only went down a little bit. As a rogue your single target dps while tanking shouldn't change that much, do you have a before and after parse?
  2. Elkar Headhunter Lorekeeper

    What is all the fuss about?
    I went to fire pulled a field and all the little mobs killed themselves in under twenty seconds.
    I also went to Sathir's Tomb and pulled a golem with five skelly friends and by the time the golem was dead all the skellies were at 20-25%. That's not bad for some mobs I haven't even targeted yet.
    This non-nerf got you guys all fired up over nothing.
    For those worried about reposte aggro you are making the wrong argument. It is true at least one of the tank classes out there could use some ae aggro upgrades but go make suggestions for it instead of wasting your time over the would be crumbs here.
    It did not effect non-tanking dps.
    It effected tanking dps at a minimum.
    It potentially will benefit raid tanks.
    It just seems like a non-issue to me so far from the comparisons I have made.
  3. Dewey Augur

    A large percentage of damage from a rogue is from backstabbing. The most backstabs while fighting a mob not in the back is from riposte.

    This nerf cuts rogue dps down alot because of the lack of backstabs that occur when fighting a mob in the front.

    The devs used riposte to balance rogue dps since it was significantly less in the front of the mob. Now they will have to do something else to balance the dps.
  4. Laronk Augur

    Did you actually parse the difference? "alot" isn't very scientific on even con mobs the actual drop in ripostes shouldn't be that much
  5. p2aa Augur

    Yeah, but you don't riposte every sec ? so doesn't change my point, try to stand auto attack on only, and ask some people to AE DPS mob you don't actively target, and see if you can hold aggro on them. Each person that said riposte aggro was enough was people using only healing spells cast on them, and healing generate nearly no aggro.
  6. p2aa Augur

    Ok I understand your point of view. But isn't a defensive check rather successful if you aren't getting hit at the end ? So the older system to take into account strikethrough would be more accurate if you want to know the number of defensive attacks that avoided you to be hit ?
  7. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    I assume you mean "unsuccessful" but regardless the answer is no.

    Since we know the "real" riposte rate, we can use that to determine the strikethrough rate of the NPC, something we couldn't do before.

    # Strikethrough Ripostes / # Real Riposte Rolls = Strikethrough %.

    That said, I AM changing the riposte % in GamParse (.98+) to report the riposte rate after taking strikethrough into effect so it will show like it used to.
  8. Dewey Augur

    Rogues use riposte to backstab from the front. It does effect non tanking dps.

    Not only do we depend on us riposting the mob. We also depend on the mob reposting us. They repost us and we counter repost and backstab.

    I'd bet a krono that the devs didn't even think that they would be nerfing rogues with this patch.
  9. Lianeb Augur

    Are you trying to say Rogue DPS is higher while Backstabbing from the front verse the back due to Riposte damage?
    Allayna likes this.
  10. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Wouldn't that seem to imply that rogues ever rate a thought from the devs?
  11. Raivene Lorekeeper

    no I think they are trying to say that the mechanism that allows them to backstab while tanking is nerfed
  12. Allayna Augur

    Rogues should BS from the back....

    The trade-off for *some* mobs having nasty rear-arc AEs is that they are also able to BS from the front less frequently. The fact that rogues were using this to their advantage to also frontal arc riposte BS mobs down and now that is no longer available at the extreme rate, seems like a healthy change for the game.
  13. Raivene Lorekeeper

    I think mostly rogues do backstab from the back. This ability was given to them to add a chunk of dps back to them when they are tanking. A rogue just dpsing from the front won't lose much. It's ONLY when they are actually tanking I would think when this becomes significant. And that ability was put in deliberately to assist them in that task. Like all of this unintended consequence I would think.
  14. Bigstomp Augur

    18.5 roughly percent riposte in GMM. Probably a bit lower since I'm sure I used furious at least once.
    16% riposte in gates of korsha (same, furious at least once for a dps boost).

    Both over large enough samples of mobs it wasn't just luck on one.
    I don't feel anything is wrong.
    kizant and Duder like this.
  15. Raivene Lorekeeper

    The riposte rate isn't the issue. In those same parses look at the miss rate the mob you were tanking had. The ones where the mob totally misses you. Those are the riposte opportunities you no longer have. If the miss rate is 50% of the mobs swings (for simplicity sake) then you have 50% of the riposte opportunities you used to have. So take the amount of damage you are doing with riposte now and double it... that's what you used to do. The rate is actually the same. It's just that you had more opportunities to riposte before that you just don't know.
  16. Bigstomp Augur

    In modern content it doesn't hurt. If that means I have less script lag in modern raids as the devs explained it should improve performance, I call it a win.

    I'm ok with killing ancient content a little slower.

    Edit: The only mobs who reliably MISS you are so low level it doesn't matter. Yeah, we took a small hit to riposte damage, but having played for a few days after the change I really don't even notice.
    Sancus likes this.
  17. Oggrah New Member

    The rippost nerf has made my tank characters laughable worse in older content. I do not see why it is logical to make your character worse the better and higher level it becomes. Also it make him do less damage and ae-aggro in current content, with side effects like my cleric merc get more aggro (and dieing).

    I see some folks here reply that it doenst matter much because rippost works well enough in current zones. Well, I can tell you that for many people like me, we like to play in older zones, do older quests, hunters, resource farming etc. and this nerf seriously make this alot more tedious.

    Tedious to do something you have done since this game was made. What is the results? Well, for many some of the fun has gone away, and I will not subscribe again on either of my five accounts in the forseable future if this nerf stays the way it is. Couple this with the nerf of Vanglarous Shout which my bard used which is also nerfed hefty in this patch.

    This is not the first nerf, not long ago they nerfed the slow belts too, which surely did make a big impact on the moloing part of the game.

    What is the motivation to pay and play this game, getting small upgrades through a new augment or such, for then to get nerfed which made your character worse in certain areas than hes ever been?

    I am afraid nerfs like this willl have some players quit, which is sad as this has been a great game.
    Veritas likes this.
  18. Warpeace Augur

    This is another example of why FTP is bad and posting on the forums should be tied to a paid account. Risk / Reward right?

    Enjoy your opinion, but considering its the one and only post from this "new account" I'm not going to have any issues sleeping at night.
  19. Veritas New Member

  20. Warpeace Augur

    Shocking you post right after I replied to the throw away account.
    Allayna likes this.

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