This class lacks the basic tools required to perform its advertised role.

We are listening, we just are proposing various suggestions. I do think the artemis and the variants are very bad, but, I don't think damage is the answer...without perhaps slowing the fire, increasing the accuracy, and the ammo count and treating it like a carbine instead of a really weird SMG.

SMGS would be amazing, to be honest, and I wouldn't complain if it was a infiltrator only secondary.

Also...pistol balance needs to be adjusted, I can whole-heartedly agree.

I apologize, but I haven't had much opportunity to try out the Artemis, so its flaws aren't immediately apparent to me. Even I can appreciate numbers like "12/20 shots to the chest to kill one target", though, so that seemed a good place to start. I just run around with the Manticore in preparation for that fateful day where we finally get Stalker Camo but not an actually effective sidearm.

As for the knife, you have to remember that if that day ever comes, it's going to become an extremely important weapon to an entire subclass of Infiltrators, as are the sidearms which will become that subclass's primaries. It shouldn't ever become as good as a real shotgun, of course, but it should be a comparable replacement for the people who trade their primary for the incredible power of being able to hide potentially forever.

Regarding this, specifically, I said shorter duration. Like, 8 seconds? Perhaps 6 if that's pushing it? The idea is for a stealth which gives you a chance to get where you intend to go, but only if you have a very clear idea of where that is and only you're prepared to deal with the possibility of getting caught on arrival. Particularly important is the fact that it shouldn't be desirable as a get-out-of-jail-free ability so much as a break-into-high-security-prison one, although this could probably come from a punishing recharge rate too.

Infiltration needs to be what it was in PS1, period. You want to add to it, by adding sniping abilities? Awesome, but do not detract from it.

Hopefully, the infiltrators will get some love in the near future.

I feel like hacking could be fleshed out much more in-game.
Maybe adding high-priority targets that took longer to hack but kept the hacker's progress.
Maybe the ability to cut a facility's lights.
Maybe giving the sensor dart gun a dart that lets the Infiltrator hack things at a distance.
Maybe the ability to hack the enemy's terminal so it takes twice as many resources to requisition things.

Just random thoughts that I have, but could add a greater amount of depth beyond "I hacked a terminal! Now what?"

My friend states that there are 3 types of (VS) infiltrators.

The Infiltratoes, "idiots with down syndrome" who use the default weapon to pick off targets. Good for my Med Applicator, though.

The infiltrators, who use Scout Rifles, stealth, assassination, and anti-personnel to take down unsuspecting enemy bases. He tells me that they often go well with a well-placed Sunderer. My favorite kind, to be honest. I'm trying to find one for a 5-man outfit I want to make.

And the NC Snipers, wonderful people who use the Parralax from wonderful ranges to take down exposed targets. Don't understand how these guys pull it off.

Uh yeah, certain people seem to have some strange ideas about the Artemis. One individual went as far as to claim it requires 20 headshots to kill.

In a nutshell it's slightly lower DPS than the Solstice (default engi/LA weapon) with a short mag. There are a good deal of better CQ weapons but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. I use it when I'm not sniping - it's not great, it's not awful, it's just average. Personally I'd like to see it approach CQ-specialised carbines in all aspects. Because I'm pretty sick of running into LAs with silent jetpacks (seriously - silent JET ENGINE but noisy CLOAKING DEVICE?), C4, automatic shotguns, and/or underslung grenade launchers.

I keep bouncing between the Artemis and the Nyx. I can't decide which I like better - I run out of ammo with the Artemis and it sucks at mid-long range but it's MUCH easier to handle than the Nyx.

As for infiltrator itself -

Inf requires some cert investment, imo. I'm curious to know how much you've invested in it? A minimum of lv3 hacking, lv4 camouflage cloak recharge, lv3 faster shield recharge, lv3 sensor dart, lv1 mines, extra ammo/grenade(s) - plus essential optics, suppressor and laser dot/grip for the Nyx & Artemis - all help alot in CQ situations.

Sorry if the following has already been stated, and please don't take it as a "you're doing it wrong" - I just want to make sure this has been covered.

Cloaking - the Hunter Cloak should be thought of as camouflage rather than invisibility. It does help, people take longer to notice and track you but it won't let you run past a group of semi-alert enemies at close range, you are not invisible. The vrrt noise is easily missable in a big firefight but a dead giveaway in quiet places. It's entirely appropriate for the sniper role but limited for actually infiltrating.
The sensor dart is very useful once you know how it works.... and once you've certed it to lv 3+. I can elaborate on this but will leave it for now, for the sake of brevity.
Hacking - Situational, but powerful. Equipment terminals are particularly useful things to hack to replenish mines and sensor darts, and change class. In close second are spear (AT) turrets - sometimes/often, enemy tanks will have their backs turned to friendly turrets. Then Xiphos (AI) turrets. Then anything that you don't want your enemy using.


I do agree with you on your major point, Dr. E. Essentialy an infiltrator's team role boils down to sniping, hacking and sensor darts. And if we're stuck with the hunter cloak for sneaking around we need more close-range punch. I quite liked T:A's cloaking actually - lasts a while, subtle on/off noise, completely invisible but taking damage reveals you.

My setup on the Infiltrator? I've got a fully upgraded Manticore and a V10 with a 12x scope, level 3 hacking, level 4 nanoweave armor (I rarely need the ammo and the grenades are less effective than throwing mines at my opponents, especially when they aren't aware), both proximity mine upgrades... and I believe that's it. I understand that putting points into the stealth would dramatically increase its uptime, but I can't bring myself to do it because the actual effect of it is so terrible that I don't want to feel like I'm wasting points when I know that a replacement will eventually come along, and if it doesn't, I'll just outright quit the class altogether. I haven't looked into the sensor dart much, but I'm kind of warming up to the idea of being able to know when people are coming - it would certainly serve me better than more ranks in Hunter Stealth would, since I could just leave it off until someone showed up.

Right now I'm sitting on like 900 certs, but between the potential introduction of Stalker Camouflage or C4 and the fact that I consider most of my "always useful" class upgrades to be at an acceptable level, I'm just sitting on them. I'd rather have the certs to dump into new, expected, and most importantly necessary content than be lacking when it rolls around, and until then... well, I'm doing alright even with just a pistol, honestly. I can't overstate how valuable those proximity mines are for just everything but killing Sunderers, and that's simply the only thing I would ever give them up to be able to do. Here's hoping I get to make that difficult choice in the future.

If you are talking about a techplant in fullblown seigemode, I don't even bother trying to sneak in. Not possible. best i can do @ a tech plant is to hot drop in and stear to a nice spot and snipe. Biodomes are another one that is impossible to sneak into when it is in full blown seigemode. Everything else has enough openings and what not to get yourself in and mess things up. Of course I don't mind not being able to sneak in to a base that has 100+ enemies guarding the entrances and roaming the hallways. Alot of my incertions into hotzones usually involve a deathdive with an ESF. cruise where ever you want @ ceiling altitude. get above target, nose dive to the place you want, either do a hot landing, or jump out right before you crash, cloak and make your way in and do stuff. But again if you expect me to sneak into a base crawling with enemies it's not going to happen unless I have a perfect cloak that lasts forever. Infiltrators are best used when a base is lightly defended, go in hack some terminals, spawn a sundy, park it somewhere nice, go engineer, lay some mines infront of vehicle spawn, grab infiltrator again, go flip the cap, lay some claymores, find a nice place to snipe and wait for reinforcements.

Also my main objections really are that alot of suggestions for our class make it step on other class's toes. Grapple hook + CQC weapon + C4 Why should I play assault then? I get all the mobility and inclose damage + a cloak on top of it. The more I read these infiltrator qq's the more I think you guys should be playing a Light assault.

Hacking deployed sundies to prevent spawn and keep the anti-deploy radius up is a great idea. High risk high reward also something no other class can do. The addition of C4 would be nice, I can deal with that, Most QQ threads i read are bout turning the infiltrator in to a cqc deathmachine. Never played PS1, so PS2 is all I know and infiltrator has it's own niche it's own defined flavor and I keep saying as the drawdistance increases for infantry the more powerful we become. Really that's my only gripe for the class right now. 300m is in range of the hvy light max and medic. Either i'm running up against alot of hackers or someting.Cause a non head shot usually results in accurate return fire. oh one other gripe, we have no way of being not detected by scout radar. More often than not when farming a sundy spawn it's not the infantry that get me, it's a pasing ESF that has scout radar + NV we need the same stealth cert as sundies ESF and other vehicles.

dear lord,are you seriously that stupid,or are you trolling toshogu?

we are talking about the infiltrating aspect of the infiltrator

we are not talking about sniping, after 7 pages,you still do not get that?

sniping is fine,sniping right now it's absolutely perfect,what are we arguing right now it's that the infiltrator cannot infiltrate because the cloak it's absolutely worthless in the current state for doing that

despite you are explaining the only possible way for us to infiltrate

aka go into a deserted base spawn a sunderer and gg,you dont think for a second that our only infiltrating option is avaible in a deserted base it's a little bit disappointing?

if you want to answer l2P one more time,shall we link your stats again?,with your awesome K/D ratio?

Go for it, K/D means little to nothing in Planetside. If you want K/D to really matter you can play COD I've heard it matters in that game.

no it doenst matter

but it does matter when you mock the others and tell them to go L2P,claiming that you are such a good infiltrator and they are not

while your stats actually prove that you are flat out lyng

i have a terrible K/D ratio myself,but at least i dont try to be an arrogant moron,like you do,spreading lies left and right

Ok so all I need to do to be a good Infil is to gun for my buddy's lib. Rack up a few hundred kills and then I'm a good Infil right?

It's unacceptable that we can't sneak in to two of the three major base types in this game anyways. Even if we had a cloak which made us 100% invisible, lasted forever, and came with all sorts of awesome perks, I bet we still wouldn't have a survival rate over 60% when trying to get into a Tech Plant past the never-ending grenade spam and bullet walls coming from both sides of the only unshielded entrance. Light Assaults at least get the option to come in from above the shields on the side of those bases and fly up to the second level from anywhere on the ground, and I bet that even they die constantly just trying to get that far. Bio Labs actually wouldn't be so bad if we could legitimately sneak around because the aircraft pads are too large to shoot mindlessly and kill unseen targets, but the firing lanes that cover those places are pretty hard to avoid when you're trying to get something done, and there's not a whole lot to do other than kill as many people as you can until you clog up the generator and SCU with corpses.

A large number of base layouts need to change, or we need a tool to compete with the overwhelming advantage of verticality that the Light Assault possesses, and I really couldn't care less which one happens. I've suggested several times that we get some kind of personal shield diffuser like the Sunderers already have for a while now, simply because for all this talk of hackable side-entrances and the like, I can't help but feel that all they would create is another entrance for people to camp if it were made available to an entire faction. On the other hand, if we could use enemy teleporters or run through enemy base shields, nobody would feel an inherent need to protect those locations because they're still completely safe for your faction and still unavailable to a large majority of the opposing one. Nobody's ever going to get overrun by an army of shield diffuser Infiltrators, although I willingly admit that I would pay cash to see just such a thing happen.

My K/D is like 3-4 but you don't see me arguing that the Infiltrator is fine and people need to learn to play. Of course, I actually do gun in a Liberator quite often, though if you could separate my stats into those achieved just as an Infiltrator, I'm quite certain I'd still be over 1. Now, if you could separate that further to my K/D specifically while running around in close quarters with the Manticore? There's no way. I doubt that any Infiltrator, much less a Vanu one, could really achieve numbers that another class would consider impressive while playing like that.

Dear Elitist, C4 is a NS cert, Its the Same on every faction, YOU are talking about claymores, Which can rock enemy players when used right, AND the lasers are a huge give away, All 3 'Anti Infantry mines' are easy to spot IF you look, but if you dont, you die. And back to topic. The Infiltrator has its uses at medium range with the semi auto and the scout rifle, but a indoor type weapon other then a pistol would be useful, and Yes, you can technically get into a base and preraid a base, but if the defenders are remotely aware of your presence good luck trying to despatch them. Im not saying Infiltrators need to be super OP infantry Killers, but have some chance when you sneak up on someone.

From the patch notes:

World:

• The main shields at Tech Plants are now operated by two generators in the outlying buildings. These shields now have icons that display the status of the generators.

FFFFFFINALLY.

Figure I'll toss my thoughts in. I'm the kind of person that likes to do/be reasonably decent at everything so Infiltrator issues are an interest. About the only thing I use Infiltrator for at the moment is to unhack stuff. I should probably be blowing it up and repairing because it's worth more exp to do that, but whatever.

I really don't care about the sniping. This isn't TDM and there's usually medics to spam revives everywhere so sitting off in the distance shooting dudes, away from my team with no real interaction with the actual objective is just... not my cup of tea. I'll do it occasionally since as I said, I generally play just about every role in a game to some extent, but it feels pretty pointless to be out in the rocks sniping people. Snipers have their use, especially if you're engaging a small infantry squad in some hills and you can snipe their medic... but in most situations it doesn't have a major purpose beyond being an occasional annoyance.

Actually infiltrating and doing stuff is what would interest me, which as has been covered in great detail here - currently lacks proper tools and very few useful things to do once inside. Insta killing fools from behind out of cloak would just be Infs doing their best Predator impression. Meh.


The ability to get through shields other than the spawn shield and the gold SCU shields would be pretty cool and would give infiltrators a unique way to get in - but that pretty much only applies to the Amp Stations, Bio Labs (down below in the pointless vehicle terminal as it's camped by 30 tanks anyway), and Tech Labs as I can't think of any other area that has an infantry stopping shield. Would give more reason to watch the other doors in a Tech Lab - specifically the back which is only at risk of a shield defuser sunderer at the moment.

They do need more stuff to do once they're in, for sure.

Being able to hack a Sunderer to disable it in some way (and make it take more than 3 seconds to unhack the AMS ffs) would be great. Hopefully allow it to be done to undeployed Sunderers too or one of the five others sitting inside that Tech Plant/Amp Station will just get used instead. Not sure how to handle it for other vehicles - PS2 is a different style than PS1 so can't just copy paste vehicle hacking exactly as it was. Making it unable to be entered would honestly just encourage randoms to never leave their vehicles instead of getting out to cap stuff. Kicking people out would just make them turn around and blow your face off. Don't really dig the long(er) range "scramble their controls" option either - though it would be hilarious against the ESFs that hover and spam rockets.

The devs apparently feel that C4 isn't subtle enough, just like shotguns. Fine by me, but one way or another, Infiltrators need a way to impact vehicles. I can appreciate they don't want to make the class too offensively powerful at close range, so that once they've added the right infiltration tools the game doesn't just turn into a chaotic "get killed from all angles" (well, moreso than now, heh). If you get spotted at close range, you're at a disadvantage. If they don't preserve that, a lot of the sneaking stuff could get combined with the offensive stuff and get out of hand quickly. Maybe just weapon lock for a bit. Depending on the length needed to successfully hack it could be anywhere from 15 seconds to 1 minute. Could maybe have a delay on activation from when you finish the hack so you can not be standing right next to the tank when the driver (and possibly gunner) realize you're then and attempt to run you over/get out and shoot you.

Some way to detect and deal with mines would be good, so you don't have to "go loud" to clear them off the generator/get gibbed by them and hope they don't get replaced by the time you get back. Maybe the ability to hack them so that if you get to that shield generator and it's mined - you can hack them and then flip the gen so when people come to stabilize it they trigger them instead... + your own mines/claymores to hopefully delay them enough for the gen to explode.

Don't care either way about grapple guns. If they were implemented I wouldn't be calling BS but I wouldn't care if they weren't either. They'd just get used 90% of the time to find an even more annoying sniper perch. Best use I can think of off the top of my head is getting to the roof of an Amp Station (assuming Infs get the ability to go through either of the two shields blocking those entrances).

Could go either way on perfect invis compared to the camo that's available currently. Would need to be handled carefully. Giving up the primary is a fairly decent method given current loadout options - and you get to make people waste time running around with IR scopes trying to find you thus diverting attention from the front. Would give the roofs of Amp stations more use, too.

Would rather not have one hit knife kills. TF2 spy can keep that. A longer reach wouldn't be too terrible though.


EDIT:

Lawl, nevermind. No need to infiltrate those anymore - they're probably going to be easier to take than Amp stations as you can drive right up to them right off the bat.

And so the man understands =) See this guy gets it. The infiltrator class is not the problem, it's the base layouts. Techplants and Biodomes are a no go for infiltrators. Like I said in my earlier posts. Even with ALL the qq crap you guys want them to give us. You aren't going to be infiltrating into one of those places while they are in full blown seige mode.

Also I can be as arrogant as i want because unlike alot of qq'rs here I'm doing just fine as an infiltrator. I cap bases, I kill people. I'm not looking to turn the infiltrator into a front line fighter. Unlike ALL the other classes the infiltrator was never meant to be in the front line. We are supposed to be in the rear, or on the flanks. Hitting lightly defended bases. If you want to assault a tech plant or biodome use a class that is suited to doing just that. LA, HA, ENG, MEDIC, MAX. Giving the infiltrator a CQC weapons is a bad idea, it will make us instantly OP. Especially something like a shotgun, or an engineer's SMG. Cloak, spray, cloak **** wash rinse repeat. There is a reason why they took the shotgun out of the infiltrator's aresenal on public release. If you want to CQC, then infiltrator isn't the class for you.

I don't really buy the argument that C4 isn't subtle enough for an Infiltrator. The whole point is to do the damage before anyone knows about it, shooting people in the back with silenced weapons and never showing up on the minimap so those guys at the front think they're still being covered by someone else. If you have a tool which sticks to an enemy vehicle and gives you the power to detonate that vehicle in a glorious fiery inferno exactly when you need that to happen, the damage was done when you first slapped C4 to it, not when you pressed the button halfway across the base while giggling like a psychopath. Hacking things is actually more obvious because the results are immediately made apparent to everyone, and you're still in the area when they occur. Respawning players wouldn't know the difference between a hacked Sunderer and a dead one, but anyone still in the area would know exactly who to blame - all they'd have to do is look at the clearly sabotaged yet not exploded AMS unit and immediately deduce that no tank or assault class was responsible.

Oh, also, this is a really minor thing and totally irrelevant in large scale battles, but when you kill someone with a silenced weapon, it shouldn't post your name, weapon used, and victim in the kill lists of enemy factions.

Even if they were to offer door or areas only accessible by infiltrators do you all think that in a large base fight that those location would not be just as bad as the front door being nade spammed. The idea of a cert allowing us to travel through shields is an idea that allows for greater infiltration but what you plan to do when you get behind the 100 people spamming the door escapes me.

Since disrupting the generator would only draw unneeded attention I would think the EMP dart idea would make the most sense. The EMP dart would vastly make our class more viable in a team atmostphere.

Infiltration in a heavily guarded base is a waste of infilt. time in the current build. If your goal is CQC to kill a bunch of your enemies to push into the base then you should be playing another class.