This class lacks the basic tools required to perform its advertised role.

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Dr. Euthanasia, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Dr. Euthanasia

    It's that simple. You can argue that the scout rifles are too hard or too unrewarding to use, or that our class's only automatic weapon is severely outclassed by every one of its competitors. Alternatively, you could argue that the faction imbalance has never been more significant than in its selection of sidearms - weapons which assume the role of a primary for this class in many situations. You could also argue that our class is the only one in the game with weaker shielding than all others, further cementing our already massive disadvantage against even a slightly competent enemy player.

    And you would be right. But you would be overlooking the greater issue.

    Let's start with a simple question: what is the Infiltrator supposed to do? SOE's answer is apparently "snipe people and nothing else", but any search for the definition of the world will yield two notable results: "To pass surreptitiously into enemy-held territory", and "To penetrate with hostile intent". Unspoken but clearly implied is the fact that an Infiltrator does this for a purpose, whether it is to gather information or sabotage important assets. If you sneak into an enemy base, you probably intend to hack their terminals and turrets, kill everyone you see, and generally just cause problems for everyone who isn't your choice of glorious blue, purple, or red (although purple is clearly the best choice here, just saying).

    So, with that established, let's go over what important things an enemy base may contain that you will be wishing you could ruin:
    - Terminals
    - Base Generators (specifically the shields they project which prevent you and your team from even entering the most important parts of the base)
    - Turrets
    - Enemy Infantry
    - Enemy Vehicles

    Four of those five things are technically in your power to sabotage. Of course, the Infiltrator has no unique interaction with generators or enemy infantry, and rarely gains any significant benefit from hacking terminals before the area they exist in is controlled by the rest of their faction. Hacking turrets is also a very high-profile and low-impact action that tends to get you killed well before you can really do anything with them. Vehicles are really the biggest issue here, because people can spawn out of them and you can do literally nothing to stop this unless you hack an infantry terminal just to switch to a better class. Like Medic. Because Combat Medics deserve C4 more than Infiltrators do, apparently.

    This begs the question: what tools do we have to break all of these important things that our enemy wants us nowhere near? Well, we have an excessive number of sniper rifles for killing infantry at ranges where nothing but other snipers will have any effect on what we're doing, our faction-specific sidearms which aren't even remotely balanced in comparison to each other, a few semi-automatic rifles that pale in comparison to any automatic, the worst automatic in the game, a 12 second invisibility device which prevents us from defending ourselves while active, that can be countered by IRNV scopes and by us being accidentally looked at while we're moving even slightly, some powerful infantry-only mines, a built-in hacking tool which only works on static base assets, and... a little dart gun with the same functionality as our Q button.

    This is, in my opinion, the heart of the problem. Far worse than any potential balancing issues with our current equipment is the devastating lack of equipment made available to us. A shotgun is only necessary because our best close combat weapon is an extremely unreliable and underwhelming knife; buffs to the full-auto scout rifles are only necessary because our useless stealth forces us into direct mid-range confrontations. Some roles like destroying or stealing vehicles are outright impossible, and many locations are completely inaccessible to us because we can't climb walls or walk through base shielding despite the most important and desirable objectives lying directly past them. Instead, we have to walk in the front door along with all the other infantry, where we're just going to get shot and blown up because we're paradoxically expected to sneak up on our objectives without any of the tools that would enable us to do so.

    My solution is simple, and if you people thought that the latest bolt-action rifles were a money-grab, that little incident would pale in comparison to the sheer number of people willingly throwing money at SOE for the kind of unlockable core items that I have in mind. How about a cloaking device that makes you 100% invisible even while sprinting, but only lasts an extremely short amount of time? How about one that lets you pass through base shields while active? How about giving us ******* C4 since it's already in the game on other classes that don't even need it? Slot 3 replacements for the Sensor Dart that let us disable vehicles and generators, maybe? The possibilities are numerous, and I hold no delusions about being the only one here with good ideas. Let's hear some of them instead of more ineffectual whining about how our weapons aren't potent enough to take down a heavy assault for once, hm?
    • Up x 13
  2. Toshogu

    My easier solution.

    you need to Learn how to play. I sneak into bases all the time, I also prep bases for assault all the time. The terrain in this game is excelent, you need to learn how to use it. Cloak is fine, maybe a cert that lets you extend cloak time would be nice. but for the most part you jsut need to lear how to play

    the only real gripe I have about TR weapons is the C4. compared to other factions infiltrator weapons it sucks. They either need to give us one that isjust as hard as to see as the other factions. OR a simple solution of getting rid of the stupid green lazors so we can actually stick em around corners without people going.. oh green lazors.. claymores... not going there.
  3. Krytical

    I've given up on trying to play infiltrators like infiltrators. When I'm in the mood for some base ruckus, I switch to light assault and pack a shotgun with slug ammo.

    The sad part is that shotguns with slug ammo are better than the the scout rifles.
  4. m44v

    Oh look, more preaching from another elitist player.
    • Up x 5
  5. VKhaun


    The loud noise is breaking the class, plain and simple. If you want them to have underpar weapons they have to unlock... that's harsh, but okay, that's a dev's prerogative... but if it's going to start with a sniper rifle and a big loud noise when you stealth (meaning it's only stealthy out of ear shot) it should be called the sniper class with an infiltration upgrade, not the infiltrator class that happens to have sniper rifles.
    • Up x 1
  6. Xiphos

    I generally agree. LAs make better infiltrators than infiltrators (they can't snipe though). They even get C4 which can blow up a wounded Sunderer which is actually the highest priority target in many base assaults.

    Infiltrators need better cloaking if they're ever supposed to get past guarded base entrances or chokepoints with multiple enemies.

    Infiltration currently has little purpose besides hacking turrets (which face outwards and are thus useless when the fight takes place in the base). There also need to be more hackable objects inside bases that are worthwhile goals.
  7. VKhaun

    It's sad how right you are... the jet pack is quieter than a cloaking device, and the shotgun with slug ammo is on par with a battle rifle for sniping. If you're not out past the falloff to min damage of high velocity ammo, or right next to a vehicle terminal or base turret with a good line on enemies, you shouldn't be an infiltrator.

    That's really the worst part. Every class has 'specialist' things they do, but when NOT doing specialist things they are also general infantry. The sniper class doesn't have that. They can't just be john doe infantryman until the time comes to use their special stuff. They have to be a sniper, hack a terminal, or go get out another class.
  8. Skeith

    if i got a penny everytime i had to read such idiot posts....

    so you want to tell me

    that you can infiltrate inside an enemy base

    with a 12 seconds cloak that can be spotted at 1000 yards of distance if you are moving

    wich also produces a sound louder than a chainsaw once you activate or deactivate it

    that prevents you to defend yourself once you are caught

    withe the crappiest cqc set in the game?

    besides that,our n1 problem lies in the cloak

    simple as that if it's not full invisibility than it should not have a duration,

    if it has to last 12 seconds then by all means it should be full stealth

    right now we are chameleons who can adapt to the surroundings for 12 seconds and then let out one huge *** fart everytime we end the stealth.

    talking about the rifles,they do kill stuff,but they are inferior to all the others LMG wich would be ok,if the cloak allowed the infiltrator to actually sneak up.
    • Up x 1
  9. Fishie

    Seriously, we could really use a word from the dev team on this. Is the infiltrator a work in progress still? Is it intended to be a sniper class? What's the idea for the class? Are changes coming, or should I start certing into light assault? What's going on here? :s
    • Up x 2
  10. Rigsta

    Honestly I've found that the better I've become at this game, the better infiltrator has become.

    The cloak sucks without any certs but is much more usable with +30/40% recharge rate. There could be better options for close-in work due to the short duration and noise but I can still make it work. Just gotta remember it's camouflage, not invisibility.

    Ditto hack, much better when certed to +30% or higher.

    And ditto sensor dart, it's much better with the 3rd upgrade which gives you an extra one and makes it last longer, and a better range, and a better scan rate. If you think it's no better than pressing Q, you're using it wrong. Just remember people only show up on it when they move.

    The automatic (Artemis for VS) is plenty powerful enough (a shade lower DPS than the Solstice), the only problem I have with it is running out of ammo. Ammo Belt is on my shopping list. The Semi-auto Nyx is better for mid-range shots while maintaining close-range power with the laser dot attachment, but it is awkward to use with its big, spikey recoil and semi-auto nature. Overall I'm glad I got both of them, they both have their uses.

    Oh, unlock mines. So, so useful.
  11. Drazen

    TOSHOGu (Anime fan?) said - "My easier need to Learn how to play."

    sorry Toshugu, did you say anything past that? Because I stopped reading your counter post after that sentence..

    Rigsta said - "The automatic (Artemis for VS) is plenty powerful enough (a shade lower DPS than the Solstice), the only problem I have with it is running out of ammo. Ammo Belt is on my shopping list. The Semi-auto Nyx is better for mid-range shots while maintaining close-range power with the laser dot attachment, but it is awkward to use with its big, spikey recoil and semi-auto nature. Overall I'm glad I got both of them, they both have their uses."

    Actually its plenty weak enough, it is far too weak. You have to unload a full clip in the back of somebody's head while they stand still, the vertical kick on it is ridiculous and both laser sight and compressor don't help much. The gun was nerfed so badly, with the sole purpose of making infiltrators defenseless in any type of 1v1 confrontation. YET 1v1 duels are what infiltrators will see the most when deep inside enemy territory.
  12. Skeith

    ignore toshogu he is spending time answering,the class is fine l2P

    beside your over angry rant,and personally i kinda agree considering how frustrating the class can be sometime

    i say you are right,like not just right,bloody right,i seriously hope the class wil get some updates asap

    we dont need better CQC and better stealth

    but we at least need one of those

    what's the point an infiltrator who cant sneak past anyone and still incapable of defending himself ?

    untile then ill spend my time sniping folks at the crown
  13. Drazen

    skeith said "we dont need better CQC and better stealth"

    I think we need both.

    Also I just realized something. THE DEVS ARE UNWITTINGLY TRAINING THE GREATEST AND MOST HIGHLY SKILL ED WARRIORS IN THE GAME. IT IS SPARTAN TRAINING. The **** that cqc infs have to go through, the weak shields, the useless guns, the nonexistent cloak, all these things are training us to be far and above the most efficient killers because we have 0% room for error. When we finally get the tools our class deserves, people will scream OP but the reality will just be that infiltrators are simply the creme of the crop. The best of the best, because of this ridiculously harsh training we have undergone in the days since launch.

    TO SUMMARIZE MY POINT.................THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Up x 1
  14. Hosp

    I don't think people realize the game is still being worked on.
  15. Drazen

    hosp said : "I don't think people realize the game is still being worked on."

    I don't think you realize that the devs haven't said anything about the weakest and most neglected class in this game, the infiltrator.

    Instead all they say is " HERE HAVE ANOTHER SNIPER RIFLE"
    • Up x 2
  16. Skeith

    as far as i would like both options improved,i have doubts that is even going to happen

    or the forum will be swarmed by threads like this"OMFG an infiltrator killed me without giving me the time to fight back"

    or "Nerf INF,they are such an INSTAWIN CLASS K THX"

    i personally think that the class could use some serious upgrade to make it tournament viable instead of just a "ok let hack this to spawn a sunderer and let's go back to a real class"
  17. Drazen

    if I had to choose one over the other , i'd say more competitive CQC weapons would be the priority right now. As it is , we are completely de-fanged.
  18. Rigsta

    Are we talking about the same gun? The Artemis. The automatic infiltrator weapon with a 20-round mag.

    - Its damage per bullet is the same as the Solstice, but the RoF is slightly lower. Roughly half a mag's worth of body shots to kill, probably less when you take my accuracy into account. Headshots would be half that amount.
    - Vertical recoil is easily manageable. Some random left/right recoil makes mid-to-long range fire pretty worthless, the forward grip would help with this - that's what it's there for.
    - The laser dot helps alot, actually. It was a bit of a tough choice between that and the grip. Remember it only works when hip-firing.

    Again, I'd love a bigger magazine for it but I do not have a problem playing CQ infiltrator with this gun.
  19. altonyc

    I would just like the scout rifles to have less COF. Make them kick more if you have to, but I don't like that after 2 shots, my Nyx (semi-auto) will fire just about anywhere except where it's pointed.

    We currently CAN infiltrate (as long as the outer base shields are gone, if we're talking amp stations), it's just that the infiltration actions (minus turret hacking) don't have as much reward for the risk involved. 25 exp for sneaking into an enemy base, and hacking a panel to prevent them from bringing tanks in during a battle? Hacking should give more exp in my opinion.

    Nyx (semi-auto scout rifle for vanu) gets 4 shot kills, 2 if you get a headshot. This is fine for close quarters if you get the drop; it's a heck of a lot better than the beamer. I would like it if the Vanu got a pistol as useful as the rebel or repeater, but whatever.

    Kind of funny side note: When hacking turrets, I found that what kills me the most is teammates. I'll be hacking a turret, and some smart guy blows it up with a rocket while I'm on it. One time, I was actually between the heavy and the turret, and I got direct-hitted by a friendly rocket. Some indicator for the rest of your team when a turret is being hacked would be nice.
  20. Pachins

    Just give us a better pistol and all will be happy. No need for another primary.