[Suggestion] NC maxes urgently need those Machine guns

Dodging

Its called dodging

The point is that the person moving faster will have a greater gap overall between perceived locations along the lag comp loop.

The infantry player will effectively see the slow moving or stationary MAX before the MAX sees the player, and unless the MAX is prefiring, it adds time.

This is the whole basis of lag comp. I'm not saying the player will win, but without prefire on the MAX's part, there's no instant kill outside of a shotgun OHK. This is what I meant by perfect MAX play and flawed infantry play. And when dialed into games, fractional second actions/reactions are normal.

I can't speak for the devs or why shotguns are the NC thing, perhaps you ought to re-evaluate why you chose the rebels when "better" options exist elsewhere

That's because you rarely ever tap-fire Mercies/Blueshifts due to their much higher STK. Instead, you fire in bursts. Tap-firing a weapon with and STK of 7 or 8 takes too long to kill, and your target will generally be able to find cover before they die unless they're in an open field. In addition, MAX MMGs and shotguns all have the same .2 vertical recoil, but MMGs have a FSRM of 1.5 vs the MAX Shotguns' 1.0. So tap-firing causes much worse recoil on MMGs.

So it's more viable to tap fire slug-gun MAXes due to the higher Alpha damage, lower STK, and lower FSR. And more viable to burst fire Mercies/Blueshifts..

It's the same reasons that tap-firing carbines/ARs/LMGs is generally ineffective unless your target is AFK, but it's still viable with infantry slug guns.

Yep. FWIW it appears Mattocks max damage range is 12m, not 8 like the others. (Source: http://planetstats.net/data/weapons/)

But you're preaching to the choir. I've already acknowledged that Blueshifts and Mercies are superior long range weapons.

More skill at longrange, yes. But less skill up close due to their up close OHK ability and the combination of large COF and roughly double the DPS of MMGs which means you can miss half your pellets and still maintain a similar DPS to the TR/VS counterparts. IOW, you don't need to aim as well up close.

NC do much better on Live than the punching bags they were of Old. IME they've been holding their own alert-wise on Emerald and Connery, and I see them lock conts regularly.

But I disagree with your assertion. If that were the case, then you'd think NC would have problems both in Server Smashes and Farmer's League, two competitions where MAX performance is key.. But the NC Faction has won 12 of the last 14 Smashes regardless of starting WG or which server plays them (I stopped counting after that), and the players involved in Farmers League generally agreed the NC had the best arsenal overall.

Confirmed, bads not bad weapons. I have seen the light

Slugs. http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Slug_Ammunition

There are 2 versions of slugs. Full auto, Semi auto, and MAX shotguns use the 500 damage @8m - 334 damage @40m. Pump action slugs use 800 damage @8m - 400 damage @40m. Slugs do not care about the base damage stats for the weapon, slugs use their own. The only things Slugs use from the base weapon is its COF, Bloom, Recoil, and ROF.

And that bit about +75% for COF, I have no idea if it even works or just something someone posted on there. Never noticed it in infantry shotguns and certainly not with MAX slugs in all the tests I did. And how it reads can be goofed as well. %75 bigger COF? Im having a hard time reading a +75% as anything but making the COF bigger. But it is a wiki, so could just be nothing someone posted.


Mattocks damage drop from starting point of 12m is for their Buckshot. Who have a pellet spread of 2.5. That alone makes it inaccurate as **** compared to Blueshift/Mercy but that is only after the COF picks the center of the pellet spread. The total COF could be 3.5 or greater easy with Buckshot for the first shot even if you are sitting in the dirt not moving. Not being able to hit the side of a barn is a decent saying for that level of accuracy, and Mattocks are the ranged weapon.

Shotguns also need to pay even more certs to use Slugs. MGGs are good to go out of the box. Then we get back into the whole thing with ammo counts, odds of missing, shots to kill, and all that crap again.

Ya know I thought that was the case. But then I was playing around w/ Mattocks on VR last night and was able to OHK infantry out to ~11m so it made me wonder. However, I just tested them again along w/ dual Scats and it seems the waypoint measurement must just be off by 1-2m since Scats OHK'd to the same distance.. My bad.

0.3s is pretty close, bearing in mind that at the range you should be able to guarentee a 0.0s shotgun kill, you can acually likely headshot and get a 0.16s TTK with Onslaughts.

Personally though I often think the most telling thing is usage amounts.

Slightly strangely the TR use Mutilators the most (I guess down to sheer never needing to reloadness) and the VS the Blueshift by miles the most (probably because it is the best longer range MAX AI weapon).

No problem. Ran into that detail long ago back in 2013 I think.

The range given by waypoints isn't going to be the same as the range used for damage drop. Close but more than enough to make one test turn out different from another. The waypoint is the range from you to the ground, not you to the target, and any bit you are off REALLY counts with damage drop.

The start of that 11m and the end of that 11m is more than enough to make the damage drop fall enough to change shots to kill. Can't say the exact decimal damage values go to or how they round the damage, but it gets freaking exact and is hard to test for when you have no way to get exact range. And with buckshot, that variable can be a massive change with shells to kill past 10m thanks to COF and pellet spread already doing wonders for not landing hits.

I play all three factions.
How do you think I know that chainguns are "better"?

I have always been reserved when it comes to the Max game basically never using my TR max untill i was nearly fully certed and then recently getting my NC max close to fully certed and i didnt use either till i was quite experienced in the game already so neither really has the i was a scrub i used it for stat comparisons. And after using both maxes a fair deal like 74 hours of played time on my TR max and 12 hours on my NC max i feel like other than AA the NC max is just better. Its odd but when im using my 1 scattercannon 1 mattock loadout with slugs im just as effective if not more at a distance because tho i miss more when i hit i sometimes actually kill with the hits as with duel mercys they get hit a few times and just run around a corner and as for breaching ambushing or going toe to toe with an enemy AI max its all NC max every time it feels really good to hit someone with 2 slugs and kill him before he can fire his rocket launcher. The one thing i will take a TR max every time for is AA because you can lockdown and if your in a position you cant your still just as strong as the others.

Side note according to Dasanfall my TR max KDR is 4.1 and my NC max KDR is 7.3 however my TR max is used for more supporty roles more often so the numbers are slightly scewed in the NC ones favor just for that.

As far as aggressive killing NC is better

But the TR max has a huge advantage in suppression with lockdown chainguns and pounders

I think the gameplay has an effect on this that changes what the practical numbers are in a given situation

For example, NC max suits tend to push forward because they have to to kill. TR max suits can hang back and flood an area with fire which prompts enemies to not go out and die

In a situation where the TR max does move in its not much less effective than the NC max but the NC max cant really hang back and suppress effectively

At the same time when vehicle combat comes into play the NC max again pushes forward and takes them head on where the TR max cant do that nearly as viably and when both are hanging back the NC max still has the advantage

Its a balance that way though its arguable which is more useful

And of course Vanu is right in the middle

I guess i find the aggressive more useful locking down with chainguns almost feels like a death sentence with a few exceptions but thees scenarios seem to be rare. Granted you are correct if TR maxes can get into a position to lockdown with pounders and chainguns they can suppress extremely well the only drawback is i usually on find the situation where i can do this is the gen in biolabs from the top of the stairs. As for AV i find the ravens feel like they are better in all situations compared to Fractures and better than pounders for most AV pounders are better if you still need a decent option to defend yourself against infantry and not just focus entirely on armor as long as the armor is in your range .

The fractures arent terrible with max lockdown but ill have to agree that the ravens are better than anything the TR has for AV

Though i still defend the falcons as the better close up AV option for more than just the bit of extra damage it has

Ive probably given that rant a few times here already

I havnt got any real experience with Faclons and i feel like they would be better for close range not only because you get extra damage but one direct volley hit will deal with infantry aswell.

I wish i could say the same but its really hard to hit infantry up close with them sometimes

I just shield and back away as long as possible

For tanks you can Fire>Shield reload> Fire and take them head on alone or use cover

This works really well for enemy max suits who cant really dodge shots

If you're talking about general Mattock with slug range, then I'd try out the Onslaught and the Mutilator too (Onslaught for sheer TTK, and Mutilator for just never needing to reload), to be honest at that range using the Pounder AI-wise is a decent idea as well if you get a good shot with it.

Although none are going to match the NC AI MAX at door camping (but then using the NC AI MAX more generally [i.e. when not door camping] is like likely and usually less successful).

Some of it is about style of play too, the NC AI MAX is always likely to be "better" if you prefer aggressive in your face play, where as something like the Blueshift can be played very aggressively too, but you'll usually be better keeping a bit more distance (at least until you're confidence enough to just go for headshots with it a really close range).

Where as something like the Mutilator allows you to play an almost endless support role where you'll not get as many kills, but equally will likely hardly ever die or be at risk of dying if you play just a bit conservatively (NC AI MAX overall deaths have always been higher, just they tend to kill more too).

This is the thing a lot of people don't seem to realise, and why you have to be a bit careful with direct stat comparrisions.

It like comparing PA Shotgun stats to LMG or Carbine stats and going "well clearly the stats show PA Shotguns are just the better weapon" when in reality they are used in quite a different way on average.

Lock-down just is what it is.

A lot of people complain that it is hard to use offensively (and it is), but equally it is one of the most powerful things around for holding a capture point building after a Gal drop.

If they made it into the PS1 Overdrive (which tbh I thought was a bad idea even in PS1) then with PS2 TTKs it would bascially be ZOE all over again.

At the end of the day Aegis Shield is still pretty useless offensively too, and certainly a lot less use than Charge (and Charge has almost as much utility defensively frankly).

I exclusively use dual falcons for AI MAX work. One hit kills and blast for long range suppression fire. I don't like the shotguns because maxes are slow and that makes the NC shotgun max a mostly reactive not proactive unit. I prefer the shoot-duck-to-cover method which keeps enemy heads down and puts the fight on my terms.

I've noticed NC maxes have largely fallen out of style. In the platoons I run, I almost never see people take them without a specific order. I think if more people played with dual falcons we would as a faction do better.

I think an interesting solution would be to buff the aegis shield to absorb more damage and last longer, or have a riot shield as an attachment for one of the arms. Have the MAX units survive pushing up to enemy frontlines so their shotguns can be more effective.

The shield absorbs a ton of damage... when it works. The problem is that pulling out your shield is like pulling out a big "C4 me please" sign. Not to mention that the clientside nature of the game means enemies will often see you without the shield even though on your screen you have it up.

Two ways to fix the shield 1) allow melee with it up, and 2) allow running (which is something Higby said was going to happen a long *** time ago).

Runnimg would be perfect. Especially clientside, so that the MAX units would have the advantage of rushing.