LA/Infiltrators are built to surprise attack, a shield delay on HA will give HA no fighting chance!!

Again, heavy assault shield delay is not necessary. The actual problem with heavy assaults is they are too versatile. For many players, they are the defacto general purpose, anti-infantry, anti-vehicle class. Even MAX suits need to specialize to be effective.

Additionally, heavy assaults, of standard infantry, have the worst mobility in the game, tied with engineers, and in fact, possibly worse than engineers as to use their special ability, heavy assaults suffer movement penalties. That said, between having a shield w/ movement penalty and nothing at all, I'd take the shield. The whole engineer thing I'll get to later, but the reason why mobility matters is because in any FPS game, the ability to efficiently get around is paramount to success. Better mobility permits you to engage at advantage and escape firefights that have gone south with greater consistency. Infiltrators can cloak, light assaults can fly and while medics have the same mobility while engaging, they can HOT with no movement penalty while escaping. A heavy assault has almost no capability to reset a bad firefight whereas most other classes can.

So what I'd much rather see, as opposed to a stupid blanket nerf that people on this forum are asking for without taking into consideration all the consequences, is the role of heavy assaults narrowed down so they are not the same, general purpose infantry they are now. Along those lines, it would also be nice if the role of engineers was expanded from the current, essentially purely support to an actual, combat role. Kudochop suggested moving rocket launchers from heavy assault to engineers.

This change neatly expands the role of engineers giving more people reasons to play engineer ( because honestly, even if heavy assaults get a shield nerf, engineers are still going to be the very bottom of the food chain and anybody of sound mind is still not going to play a frontline, assault engineer ), which is good because the current, suggested blanket nerfs aren't really going to balance out class favoritism except to make combat medics the new favourite class. Additionally, given SOE's amazing history of ******* massive nerfs, I'd much rather see a slightly overpowered class than a class completely nerfed into ground.

Seriously guys, consider that last bit for a moment. What are the chances that any blanket balance attempts SOE attempts will actually work out and not be absolutely ****** hamfisted? Five percent? Eight percent? I'd rather not roll on that one.

Instead of a rocket launcher, perhaps heavy assaults can equip a second class of grenade ( with perhaps a cooldown between switching between grenade types because concussion grenade + HE grenade would be a fairly broken combo ).

'The Rocket Launcher' is not a weapon. Rocket LauncherS are a CLASS of weapon, and that class accounts for 0.5% less MBT kills than the dedicated MBT Primary CannonS (note they're also a CLASS of weapon), which by design are the most deadly anti-MBT weapon in the game. Thus, since you really think there's validity in comparing total kills, you're having to try to argue that since only one Rocket Launcher (of 7) doesn't perform better than a unique weapon class used by all but one classes in the game (despite performing substantially better than numerous other weapons in the game, including MBT secondary weapons - by more than a factor of two!) it's not very useful.

Yes, because all you're focused on is last hitting, which is simply not relevant. This is a team game. A single rocket launcher will require 5 hits to kill an MBT from the front. The damage dealt by a weapon is just as relevant to its effect on a conflict as its ability to killsteal the last shot on a burning vehicle.

Look at lane pushers in DotA - many are TERRIBLE last hitters, requiring incredibly high skill to reliably land last hits, however capable of pushing a creep lane from barrack to barrack without a single casualty as their abilities do significant damage to the enemy creep wave, without ever scoring a last hit. Comparing last hits to say, Sniper, who's a very slow lane pusher but an EZ mode last hitter, you'll find yourself with Sniper seeing easily twice the number of last hits (any sniper worth his salt should see a last hit on all enemy creeps in a wave, whilst the significant AoE damage most lane pushers can do will land them with only one last hit on a creep before their friendly creeps have finished off the wave - so really, snipers should get 5x the last hits when uncontested), but with nowhere near the number of successful offensives.

Hyperbole and strawman arguments aren't the same thing. Given that we're talking about measures of 'uselessness', we've essentially guaranteed that it's an exaggeration of 'not very useful', rather than a quantity assigned to a true/false adjective.

Also, you're welcome to bring my stats into this at any time. One of my highest scoring weapons is a rocket launcher, and I've spent 235 hours on my main character in vehicles... I've spent 1110 hours in game... 20% of my time has been spent in vehicles. I don't agree that it's not so versatile that the class should be penalised for it, as evidenced by the fact that HAs are played far more than any other class.

Nope, my complaint is the REASON HA have so many numbers played. Versatile (I'll retract 'master') jack of all trades where all other classes are only a jack of one or two trades, and the HA finds itself at no disadvantage versus the ones that are ONLY good at taking on infantry.

And no, it wouldn't be the height of idiocy. It is when you're talking about factional balance, but not when you're talking about something that affects all factions equally. The game doesn't become unbalanced in favour of any one faction by nerfing a class, all that happens is that less people play an overpopulated class. If 70% of the playerbase were playing 'Monk' (arbitrary) in a game, and this was the same across all factions, I would support nerfing 'Monk' in the interest of more diverse team competition, as it's clear that when all factions (despite having different weapons for their 'Monk') prefer to play 'Monk' than any other class, it's at some kind of advantage, whether statistical or simply in utility. Diversity>having a 'go-to' class.

As I've pointed out, it's not that I 'have to lump them together to make it true', it's that the complaint is not with the dumbfire, Deci, G2A, G2G, Anni, or ESRL, it's the ENTIRE CLASS and the unique utility they provide to HA. The only valid comparison therefore is with the weapon class, when you're attempting to conclude utility from something as arbitrary as 'how much does it last hit one specific vehicle.' And as I've pointed out, a single rocket launcher from one faction amounts to more than twice the damage dealt to opposing forces as ALL C4 used by ALL factions. IMHO damage dealt is a far better measure for utility in this team game, as it takes into account damage dealt to take an opponent out of a fight temporarily, force a retreat to a worse position, deter an opponent from attacking, as well as killsteals etc. But hey, both damage dealt and last hits support my conclusion not yours, so whichever you prefer....

My mind is blown... It's like you didn't even check? The Anni is the highest scoring infantry-based AA. Launchers amount to almost three times the ESF kills of any of the dedicated A2A noseguns, sitting only a couple of thousand (behind 95000) behind vehicle collisions, making them the second most common cause of death for ESFs (suicide taking first by storm, of course). More importantly, they're the cause of more than 1.5x the ESF deaths that the dedicated AA vehicle (Skyguard) is, and they're the cause of more than twice the ESF deaths that Burster MAXs are.

And as for those comparisons to other infantry based weapons, the default dumbfire gets more than 10 times the ESF kills of any non-rocket launcher weapon. Would you like to guess what class that non-rocket launcher weapon belongs to? Yep, it's HA.

Engineers do pay a price for all of those things, in the form of absence of other things. This is how this class system works, because there is no 'default' class which is absent of these things. If we theorise about this, we have to strip a class down to something with nothing. Infiltrators get Sniper Rifles and Utilities, and Cloak, and they lose 100 HP. LA get Jump Jets, Carbines, C4. Engineers get Carbines, Repair Tool, Ammo Box, Turrets, C4. Medic gets ARs, Heal tool, AOE, C4. HA gets LMG, Rocket Launcher, Overshield, C4.

The problem is not that the HA is stronger than the other classes and thus needs a disadvantage, it's that it's the most versatile and thus is played the most. Giving it a disadvantage for this versatility will bring the HA population down and make infantry combat far more diverse and interesting.

Trolling accusations are against forum guidelines. I'm also not flustered, nor have I exhibited anything close to the emotional involvement necessary to get to 'silly little' type condescension.

EDIT: That was -such- a long meeting. Cheers for the light entertainment in the mean time - I'm pretty sure no one was even suspicious

What other stats do we have? Plus this is how the rocket launcher is balanced. I took far more rocket hits to my unmodified magrider than its total hit points allow, because the damage is slight and slow in comparison. I killed more Heavies in my tank because they had to slow themselves down to attack me. The rocket launcher is balanced because it takes a long time to fire and makes its user an easy target. When my tank was finally destroyed, how much did the 14+ rocket hits contribute to that death? Not at all.

What exactly do the Engineers lack? I am curious. I have yet to find it.

Again, the only thing the HA can do that other infantry classes cannot, is damage aircraft. You exaggerate the versatility and you attribute the classes popularity to that "versatility" based upon what? A hunch? The reason I and my son first played the Heavy when we started the game was because the game advice was that was the class most accessible to players of other FPSer. Now as we play the game more we play that class less and less. The comparison is like the default weapons, they are the generic option, the others are side-grades.

And if we nerf a class that you agree is not stronger than the other classes, how is that class suppose to play with the rest? Where is the logic there? Let alone the dangerous idea that the game will somehow be better because you've made something popular less so.

Because this games needs more ninja infiltrators that shoot you point-blank with a 1 hit kill sniper rifle, or more ninja infiltrators that kills you long range with a 1 hit kill sniper rifle, or more ninja infiltrators that kills you with a 2 shot kill crossbow, or more ninja infiltrators that kills you with a 2 shot kill commissioner, or ninja infiltrators that kills you with a SMG mag in your back.

Yes, this game doesn't have enough infiltrators.
Please nerf the heavy so we can have more people playing infiltrators.
We need them. That's the reason empires capture and defend bases faster.

Light Assault?
I love those guys flying around over your head. They makes things colored.

Totally agree.

If the DEVs suddenly decide after all this time that the Overshield is no longer for Reactive use, and is for full-frontal assaults (read: suicide) then they need to change them so they can be used for that purpose. Which means longer durations and no movement penalties.

You cannot do frontal assaults running in slow-mo Baywatch mode

Change to shield is as stupid as nerfing Saron and Enforcer. Dont know who is behind such decisions but they are little retarted. HA is only hard counter to insta-kill Infiltrators or LA with 700+ rpm weapons in game. Without HA shield as it is right now you will have more infiltrator noobs trying to kill in back and think they are skilled or LA campers on roofs becasue there wont be an class that is hard-counter and make them think "damn, if I will miss my shots he can still kill me" or "It is HA, I have to aim well or I am dead skilled-infiltrator". Truth is, I as a HA die to Infiltrators and LA when they play properly, read: They flank me or shoot from behind and I cant react. I kill idiots who try to decloack in front of me with attitude "HAHAHA, insta-kill SMG you noob" and I can tell them "wrong. Face to face in my kingdom noob". Same with Decloacking idiots shoting me with underboss and jumping like idiots or LA breaching inside of room using front doors.


Those are noobs that are calling for HA nerf. Because I know some Infiltrators on Miller who always kill me when I dont spot them/they flank me. And each time I see them first or they are in front of me- I kill them. And that is how calsses work- I am front combat domination, you are back/flank combat dominations.

Too many LA and Infiltrators try to be rambo or think they deserve insta-kill becasue you cant see them and attack you in front. HA are class that is reminding them to try to play tactical not rambo. And still there are skilled players that can play rambo-infiltrator. But guess what- those skilled ones are not the ones that call for HA nerf. Those who are calling for nerf are noobs that want to easy-kill everything.

SOE, you are doing it wrong and I hope after testing on PTS you will reverse this stupid nerf, becasue I play with my outfot on Miller and I have never ever seen a /tell or /yell from anyone that is saying HA are OP. Even from infiltrators, which is most "ego-low" class (no all of you guys, but most want to just insta kill pro ninja- like..) for players who just want to win win.

SOE, stop breaking your game and instead of playing Forumside 2, try a little to play your own game. Come back to Planetside 2. After 1 year of good shape of many things, you start to mess things up for no damn reason.

Just get real SOE.

Maybe you'll start keeping an eye out for infiltrators and stop waiting till they're already killing 5 people beside you. I can't tell you how many times I see people let infiltrators run right past them from directly in front of them. I didn't have a problem with this and identifying them quickly and correctly before they added the easymode blue/red/purple cloak highlights on friendly infiltrators. What the hell excuse do you have now? If they sneak up behind you then what's your complaint, do you want rear view mirrors duct taped to your helmet now too?

HA have a shield? its something i never use. why would i when my gun has a massive clip. what is the point of the HA shield? does it even do anything.

• MAX Suit
• Scout lolpod ESF
• Fury Scout Flash
• Any kind of Lightning tank with exploding rounds (Prox Radar 99% optional)
• Proxy Mines + Flashlight
• any Primary CQC weapon for that matter with a flashlight on it
• any kind of radar at all (SMG'filtrators aren't like Stalkers, they can't ever stop moving)
• Crossbow Radar darts + "Amplified Audio" implant (SOON!)™
• Conc nade
• C4
• RAWKIT LAWNCHAIR

& This doesn't even begin to factor in the eventual (surprise) nerf coming to SMGs and the already revealed nerf to Shoot-Knifing
I hope you also realize that it costs us Infiltrators 1000 certs for any decent CQC weapon capable of killing HA's, plus additional certs for EMP grenade & nade Bandolier just to even begin "Soft countering" more than 1 HA at a time. In addition to that, our Proxy Mines also cost more than double what Engineer's do, and we can't get a Utility pouch like they can to lay more than 2 at a time.

All those CONTERS count also on HA. No-HA can kill tank or MAX with one rocket, so while HA is a counter to them, alone he is as dead as Infil but he can dish out some dmg before he dies.

And you think how much certs as a NC HA I have to spend to have decent CQC weapon? Cyclone/Blits- 1k, Anchor- 1k, Jackhamer- 1k, Claw/Bruiser- 1k. So cut the crap. And I have additional certs for Conc greandes if I want to kill more then 1 enemy in room & nade bandolier in addition to that and I need to spend at elast 250 certs or 1k to be counter to air. And I am glowing like **** when I am using my ability while you are invisible.

Not to say other HA counter like all kinds or radar and sniper rifles (I am slow and glow). Fury scout flash wont kill HA, right?

And to HA counters let me add LA on roofs when I CANT get and invisible infiltrators which I CANT see (if they dont face me in rambo style).

So sorry but BS. Now you counter me, I counter you. After nerf I will just run in MAX all the time or switch to Infiltrator since I wont counter your SMG-insta kills anymore while you have DPS and flank advantage over me.

This change is one big BS.

Bull ******* horse ****. I've been ****** everything in CQC lately with just the Free Shotgun. Plus stock LMG's are all beast with a couple of the right attachments. They're no SMG, but they'll kill every other Infiltrator (besides the SMG cheesers) easily without you even having to pop your shield to begin with. AND, if you're getting shoot-knifed?? I've got bad news for you.... the Shield & Nanoweave don't protect against Knife & Headshots to begin with so this upcoming change makes no difference there.