LA/Infiltrators are built to surprise attack, a shield delay on HA will give HA no fighting chance!!

Truth being said, he doesn't even know the game works.

In this game More lag = more time you shoot BEFORE the enemy receive any damage and get the warning. Because it takes more time to your computer say to the server "hey i'm shooting X guy" and the server send to X guy "hey you are being shot".

That's the level of player who play with,easy mode, SMG infiltrator. He probably is trying to "flank" the enemy by walking right infront of the enemy.


Edit to make clear. Lag = More time shooting without warning what effectively means you can kill the enemy even before he receives the warning that is being shoot at.

So the best suggestion I have heard regarding balancing the heavy class is from a player named kudochop.

His suggestion is that rocket launchers go to engineer as class utility item, and heavies instead get ammo pack ( since heavies are front line assault infantry, and therefore always need more ammo ).

Heavy shield is still instant, but ramps up in effectiveness over maybe half a second. So let's say resist shield adds 50% damage reduction ( it doesn't, just using easy numbers ); when the heavy hits "f," resist shield kicks in with 25% damage reduction, then ramps up to full 50% damage reduction effectiveness, linearly, over half a second.

For the most part, I agree with kudochop. I think the core issue players have with the heavy assault class is that it is simply too versatile. They perform AI and AV, and at the push of a button, can perform at those roles even better. Even if you catch a heavy assault with his pants down ( with a rocket launcher out when you're infantry ); there's a decent chance, if he still has any shield active, he can pop shield and then pop you with his rocket. But the problem is, even after the nerfs, heavies are still going to be frontline bruisers. That's the entire point of the heavy class as it is: to **** all over all threats. Therefore, they must be capable and flexible; they must be able to react to changing threat environments because they don't have time to anticipate. Any delay to heavy shielding will way to severely neuter the heavy's abilities to fulfill this role.

Removing rocket launchers ( or making them a primary ) would greatly reduce heavy versatility and focus their combat role while giving engineers a very solid combat role ( besides healbotting ).

That said, I disagree with heavy assaults getting ammo packs. In my opinion, all front line assault units should have increased survivability and increased damage potential, but should have no support abilities at all. They should be entirely dependent on support. A heavy assault push should eventually run out of ammo and be stranded, and I do say this as an individual who does play heavy assault and combat medic almost exclusively.

Another problem I see is that engineers have pretty much already have the worst survivability. A bunch of engineers focusing on launching rockets are going to be the easiest pickings the game has ever seen.

So my recommendations:

Heavy shield instant, but requires ramp up time. Movement speed penalty similarly ramps up ( starts from 25% of current penalty, ramps up to 100% of current penalty in same time ). Engineers get rocket launchers and ammo packs. Heavies lose rocket launchers, but can spec into all grenade types ( including AV ) and carry two types of grenades.

You forgot to say this

THESE classes Have The Same Speed !



The logic ? , <<ok do you want a HA classes to have lets say 200 Permanant health buff No shield and slower moovement speed ?

When it come more armored it should slow down the speed right ? So do you want your HA soldier to almost be as slow as a max unit ?

If HP buff it should equal Speed nerf as well , and of course No shield , and find a new ability thats can be HA specific thats ddosent buff or affect HP and Armor , Heavy mean Heavy suposed to mean slow

But actually in my mind MAxs are the heavy classes in Ps2 and the HA is the anti maxs anti vehicules classes , i would not like to trade up the speed for HP bonus , i prefer to have a normal HA like we have with a proactive shield change

POGO STICK FOR HA.

its so if someone flanks you with SKILL, you can't use the "iwin" button and deny that. if you get flanked, you deserve to get flanked.

and sigh... in regards to "durr, LA's and infiltratorz will now camp becuz they know they can counter HA's now" is ******* ridiculous, about as ridiculous as what people were saying about the new death screen with the minimap.

You obviously quoted only what you read:

Nice decloak delay will solve most problems

Unless SOE goes to extreme with the delay like 1 second or above delay timer on shield activation it'll be a big disadvantage for you, but if SOE puts a delay timer on with let's say 0.79 milliseconds it'll actually be an advtange for you, in those few miliseconds unless you're facing auto shotties it's most likely only your overshield has been depleted, allowing the absorb shield to remain effective a little longer due to the activation delay. In CQC that is.

Exaggerate much?

The Rocket Launcher, all Rocket Launchers, have plenty of disadvantages, slow loading, limited ammo, long travel times, extra movement penalties, slow shoulder time. This "equal potency" you are talking about does not exist.

Quite frankly I will take that tin foil hat you offer, because I do not believe you when you say you have no problem with HAs having rockets, because in no way is that ability powerful enough to justify nerfing the class ability.

Again exaggeration, as most do when they use this "I WIN Button" BS, to describe the Overshield. HAs are not out performing over classes, you have no evidence to support the claim because it doesn't exist. The HAs class ability is on-demand defense, the LAs and Inf class ability allows them to get the drop on other players. All are entirely reasonable.

More BS. You want to disregard all the metrics other than the one you THINK fits your cause! We don't even have those numbers. I challenge anyone to produce numbers showing that HA are the most populous class. What I expect you will find is that they are popular with new players but that popularity drops massively once they join an outfit or regular group. And even if we assume HAs are the most played for any given demographic, do we know why? Its not because they are some massive power house, its because of versatility and familiarity.

I'm not talking about the rocket launcher, I'm talking about HA.

Are HA at a disadvantage engaging tanks compared to Infiltrators? No. Infiltrators can't engage tanks. Medics? No. Medics can only C4 from suicide range. LA? No. LA can only engage from suicide range. Engineers? No. Engineers have the same potency versus tanks, finding themselves stronger at range, weaker at medium range, and with less variety at suicide range, all the time having less EHP.

Are HA at a disadvantage engaging aircraft compared to Infiltrators? No. Only small arms. Medics? No. Only small arms. LA? No. Only small arms. Engineers? No. Only small arms.

Are HA at a disadvantage engaging infantry compared to Infiltrators? No. Infiltrators are stronger (sometimes) at range and weaker up close with less EHP, less useful utilities, less useful weapon choice and a reliance on surprise and outpositioning. Medics? No. Medics balance well versus HA in almost all situations; adding an annoyance+utility factor in rezzes in exchange for no offensive utilties, no ability to meaningfully challenge MAXs, and no 'IWIN' when outpositioned. LA? No. LA's only utility is to more quickly position itself; it features less EHP, less ranged potency, no secondary weapon for cheap OHKs, only a suicidal approach to engaging MAXs. Engineers? No. Engineers have the same positioning ability, less EHP/no 'IWIN' when outpositioned, no offensive advantage, less offensive utility, no ability to take on MAX, but do get the great benefit of a deployable death seat.

All that utility versus aircraft that the other classes lack entirely, and more utility versus tanks, and at least being on a level playing field with all other infantry classes (if not at an outright advantage when not being outplayed/outpositioned)... And not a single downside. It's no wonder HA is so prevalent, and to me that's boring. The game would be far more interesting if class composition was more important because there wasn't a 'Don't worry guys, as long as most of you are HA we can take on any threat that comes around the corner' opportunity.

See above. Yes it is. If the HA had no shield AT ALL it would still be played a lot I think. Certainly if I was planning a squad I'd like to take into conflict if the shield didn't exist in the game, I'd still be bringing HAs with me. I wouldn't bring 8-12 of them and fill out the rest with medics though. Can you honestly say that if the HA shield didn't exist you wouldn't want to bring HA to any battle? And yet we're not talking about even a substantial nerf to the shield; JUST restricting its use as a '**** I GOT OUTPLAYED' button.

I can't tell you the number of times I've been able to use it as an IWIN button. It's literally countless. If you watch anyones stream you'll see the same. Imagine every time you get flanked you're NOT playing HA and don't have the ability to spontaneously ignore all of the damage received in that first half a second of conflict until you found your target. Unless your opponent is terrible, you would die MOST of those times. As a HA though, despite having been outplayed, you get to level the playing field and give yourself an even chance of success. That would be a perfectly reasonable ability on a class that features that as its ONLY strength, instead of the one that also features a unique ability to take on aircraft, and a strong ability to take on tanks, AND an already high utility in offence vs infantry.

The HA's class ability WAS on demand defence, AND unique ability to take on aircraft, AND tank counter, AND on demand offence. It's being changed to be on demand offence, AND unique ability to take on aircraft, AND tank counter. I don't see this as changing balance in any meaningful way besides encouraging people to flank more, and use a broader range of classes.

I'm not sure I stated HAs are outperforming other classes (if I did, I'll retract, as whilst I believe this is the case, it's not necessary for my argument to be true), the issue is that they make up 70% of the playerbase, which means that 8-9 out of every squad are playing HA. That's simply not as interesting as if class choice was more diverse.

Actually, I want to disregard all metrics other than the one that IS my cause. HA could be UNDERPERFORMING; it is still too prevalent which means that for whatever reason, it's a more obvious choice to play HA than any other class DESPITE that you may score less or die more. As you've stated, it's not because it's a powerhouse (your strawman really knows no bounds...), it's more likely to be because (as I've been saying all along) it has too much utility/versatility.

I wish this game took a blacklight approach.

Lighter armor is faster but heavier armor has more health.....They should keep the shield instant.

This is a strafing game, even with a instant shield, if I can out strafe a HA, I will own him head to head.

They've been published quite frequently in fact.

I couldn't find any up-to-date (if you start googling for PS2 class data you just end up with ****loads of playstation crap, or Planetside descriptions of classes :/ ), so I just ran a few very cursory numbers because I'm procrastinating at work.

LMGs are used THREE TIMES as much (in hours) as ARs... That's before factoring in ESHWs, the fact that HA will spend significant amounts of time wielding their rocket launchers* or class usage of other weapons (I see it as much more likely that HA will use shotguns or SMGs than ARs, given the general preference for ARs and their versatility, but don't worry, you don't have to - three times as much is three times as much).

*I just looked it up. Rocket Launchers are used two-thirds as much as ARs are (so around 20% of a HA's time is spent with a Rocket Launcher in hand, if HA's ONLY used LMGs and rocket launchers...)... That's right, that utility that really isn't that useful at all is used by HA players for two-thirds as much playtime as another class's primary weapon is used...

Talk about bias, I don't know where to start!

Are Infiltrators at a disadvantage engaging infantry compared to HA? No. They have an extremely wide choice of weapon and their weapons are accurate and accuracy trumps all since PU2. Your range qualifications are faction specific, your opinion on their tool options is flat out wrong (like your over estimation of Rocket Launchers). I mean talk about versatile, the Infiltrator is two classes in one; Long/Medium Range Sniper and SMG Hunter Killer. Go ask in the Infiltrator forums if either of these two groups think they get out performed by HAs and prepare to be laughed at.

Are LAs at a disadvantage? Might give you that, I genuinely think they are under performing and need a buff. But your opinion on C4 is wrong. This is not in any way as substandard utility in the hands of an LA. While playing a tank last night, I was not killed by any of the 14 approx rockets that hit me. They were a mix of HA and Eng rockets and only the rockets from the Engineers caused me to back way to repair. What ended my run? A C4 fairy of course. My infantry kills? HAs that had to get line of sight, multiple times. The LA risks a lot to get close enough to lay their charges but the pay off is great. The HA has to spam a great many rockets to get a kill or pick off the already crippled. This is entirely balanced.

Do we really need to compare the support classes to the assault classes for anti-infantry ability? Are we going to pretend that the Combat Medic is in any way lacking? Either in power or numbers played? The Engineer gets the best utilities full stop and is also played in huge numbers. They out number the HA in every single squad I join, unless the Squad Leader is grouping by function. Again both the Medic and Engineer have excellent weapons, I play my Engineer as a full assault character and he does not fear HAs. I have had VS heavies get the drop on my Engineer, they have got the first hit, popped their Overshield and I have taken them out BECAUSE their movement penalty made then easier to hit. That should not possible according to the mantra of this thread, because the HA played his "I WIN" card. The simple truth is that the disadvantages of the Overshield are more than enough for anyone with any skill or a decent weapon to press the advantage. As an HA, in the rare cases when I know my opponent is skilled, I do not use the Overshield because movement beats defense against a skilled player.

And so this amazing versatility the HA gets, are they the Master of any trade? No. They are the best ESF killers of the infantry classes, but even there they are an also-ran, out killed by the massively fewer in number Skyguards. For their extra HPs they pay for with speed (and visibility). The other classes don't get an AV launcher but their alternatives (LA excepted) are every bit as good, if not better. Your class comparisons are just flat out wrong.

And lastly, where on earth do you get this 70% of the player base? Is that like 86% of all statistics, made up on the spot? Link please! I have NEVER been in a squad with 70% HAs. The highest numbers are usually Engineers and Maxes. Infs usually out number HAs, so I am calling BS on that too.

HA will still have exactly the same ability to mitigate damage, no one is taking that away. The change is just going to make it so that you have to activate the shield BEFORE combat, not as a reaction to getting shot.

Exactly! And he can still use his shield to do this when "enter[ing] the place first" and leading the charge. This is exactly what the shield is for.

Look up from time to time. You'll be fine. Play on high settings if you can to easily detect infiltrators.

Link please.

I can give you a link for MBT deaths though. First rank killer VS C4. Second TR C4. Want to take a guess at third? Hint, its ends in C4. The first rocket launchers (the default ones given to everyone that play the game) start coming in at rank 8 onwards, with less than half the kills. Incidentally, even Suicide beats Rocket launchers for MBT kills.

So forgive me if I consider your opinion of the relative merits of C4 vs Rocket Launchers to be worthless.

MBT Death Stats

Yet given all that time, they still don't get into any of the top rankings for weapons! Imagine that. Clearly they need a buff.

You are aware of the movement penalty right?

HAs running Overshield do not charge anywhere.

Oh really? Because I do it all the time when I'm playing my HA. In fact, that's really the only time I do play HA (when I need to charge into a room and kill lots of people).

I'm not really sure.

I run on a laptop on lowest settings, so there are definitely times where my frame rate isn't up to par. After this most recent update, I can't even play the game without it feeling like Heretic. With that said, this is what I encounter even when my game is running smoothly, those shields just pop the moment I open fire and I don't even have time to take them down before it does.

Now, like I said, I'm not a great player by any stretch of the imagination and there are plenty of times where I see this clearly displayed through my deaths. Still, I can't fathom how it's possible for me to land enough hits to a Heavy Assault before that shield pops, through my experience even when my game is running smoothly, unless I'm nailing a head shot with every round. It just goes up too fast.

Well then, your condescending post served as a means to prove the point being addressed...the shield works as an "I win" button when the Heavy Assault is caught with their pants down while being flanked. As for what I'm talking about, in terms of positioning, no...I'm talking about being directly behind the Heavy Assault.

Thanks for clearing things up in regards to lag though, that helps emphasize the point of why this is being changed.

We have two weaknesses (-100 Shields, Sound Mechanic that can be heard from 200m away) and a direct hard counter (Darklight) to our ability incorporated to combat this:

Wait until the second scene. Go epic and uber stealthy glass form!

That's without the Darklight cast upon us by the by...which only really applies a faction color rather than increase visibility for anyone using medium to ultra settings. How many more downsides does an underpar ability have to receive before people stop crying about it?

How about a huge arrow that flashes a team colored "I'm here, better run" above our heads? That will go great with the glass form, the ability to be heard from 200m away, the reduced shields, and direct hard counter to the class ability...only class that has a direct hard counter to their ability by the by.

No one asked for darklight either. SOE just goes around pissing in everyones cheerieos...
Can't wait till they add Jedi... How can a game company make the most brilliant games,
and then spend the next few years destroying them utterly...

OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN...

and why do I keep falling for it
/facepalm