I Want To Talk About TR Problems.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Flukeman62, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Flukeman62

    Recently I have noticed that alot of hate has been directed towards the TR because of certain weapons and I as a TR player do not like this because I don't want to be part of the "OP" faction yet I cannot leave it as I have invested time and money into my character.

    So instead of just floating around and watching everyone rage I am instead asking you to share your individual TR related problems so we can talk about them and come to a mutually beneficial agreement of what should be done instead of shouting at each other like children.

    I do want to keep this thread organised, easy to read and mature so I would greatly appreciate it if you kept your points concise and please avoid provoking other players into arguments. I will report posts that I don't think conform to my standards (e.g. unsupported nerf requests or profane anti-"insertfaction/outfit/playernamehere" posts).

    Please lay out your requests and opinions nicely with a single line that sums up your problem followed by a short paragraph of evidence and a short solution.



    Thank you for your time I hope we can all help each other out.
    • Up x 8
  2. DashRendar

    TR gets advantages without disadvantages. TR's faction specific AV work better against infantry than NC faction specific AI does. That sort of thing. TR has too many straight buffs relative to NS without having any drawbacks, while I can make a list of drawbacks on any faction specific NC items that counter balance any sense of power it may have.

    TR get larger Carbine/AR magazines with no balancing factor - Increase the recoil centering time so that burst firing is less effective, like they did with the SAW. Maybe a projectile speed cut.

    TR get the Striker - decrease the projectile speed dramatically so that it is less deadly vs. air. Air can still flee, and they should if they are being locked, but no weapon with THAT kind of burst damage should be able to track a Racer 3 AB tanks Reaver screaming toward its warpgate and hit will all rockets.

    TR have too easy to use Max AV in the Fractures - again, reduce the projectile speed by maybe 20% on these, and increase the CoF by a decent amount, and it may be fixed.

    TR get a super-Fury for AI work - turn the C85 modified into a HE rocket with a fast fire rate and is effective against infanty. Increase fire rate on the Proton PPA by 10% or so. If the Marauder is to be altered, then maybe a slight mag size cut or projectile speed decrease.
    • Up x 17
  3. IamDH

    Topic: Marauder

    Fix: Buff Enforcer Modified and Proton PPA

    Effect: Everyone happy

    Downside: Harasser farming might increase
    • Up x 6
  4. Flukeman62

    ok could you please maybe get some more evidence with more specific examples? but in regards to the FSAV weapon comment am i right in assuming that you are referring to the enforcer modified and the Vulcan? in which case I believe that the problem lies in the fact that the enforcer modified is just really bad.
  5. DashRendar

    I edited the post to include more details.

    About the FSAV, yes that's part of it, the C85 needs a remake into something that's useful. This applies also to MAX AV/AI. The Fractures are more or less of equal effectiveness vs. infantry as the NC AI shotguns and have a longer effective range, larger magazines, and shorter reload.
    • Up x 4
  6. Flukeman62

    could you please expand on your ideas to buff the EM and PPA as I need slightly more to fully develop a response to your idea.
  7. IamDH

    Oh sorry about that.

    Proton PPA: Increase RoF and maybe splash damage

    Enforcer Modified: I'd prefer a railgun but that isn't going to happen so... Give it splash damage (each pellet could do a minor explosion or something) and increase mag size. The projectile speed may need a buff

    Note: I haven't used the enforcer modified that much
  8. GumboEU

    The biggest problem for the TR is that there are so fscking many of them they suffocate because there is not enough oxygen in the region...

    Also it's ridiculous how fast a harasser with a vulcan can kill a Sunderer AND any infantry that tries to stop it. As an AV7AI combo it's too powerful, with the large magazine, high RoF, high damage and neglectable spinup time. Damage reduction against armor would be a step into the right direction I think.
    • Up x 2
  9. Frenk

    I actually think that having weapons diversity (a polite way to say "OP weapons") is part of the variety that comes with this game.

    However I have to say that the basic advantage of TR weapons are far too overwhelming: using a carbine whith 800 rpm and 30 rounds will require a good aim to be able to kill a skilled player without ending your mag. The TR counterpart, instead, has 40 rounds per mag, allowing people to just "spray and pray" effectively as if they were good players. Basically, TR weapons are too much noob friendly. They have no downsides. Lower the amount of damage per bullet could help: TR would have high rof, more mag but low damage, NC would have low rof, high damage, higher bullet speed, and Vanu would be something in the middle between them. THAT would be fair.
    • Up x 1
  10. harmypants

    This is wrong. Our bigger magazines are offset by longer reload times. We're also restricted to 143 damage carbines, and have only one 167 damage AR, the 2-shot burst SABR.

    I hate the striker, and I hate that our 'big mag, long reload time' faction trait is tainted by a stupid lock-on gimmick. I want a similar striker with wire-guided rockets.

    Getting nerfed against infantry soon, but i'd really want to see a pounder rework more than anything.

    I think the Bulldog needs some love actually, something to make it competitive with the Marauder for another faction to utilise. I see the fury, marauder and bulldog as needing to be balanced around one another first.
    Fury being more effective against non-MBT vehicles, still moderately effective against infantry. Having the fast fire rate to hit and run.
    Bulldog being more of an infantry killer, maybe a splash damage buff while still doing a little bit to vehicles. I'd like to see it as an endurance-based anti infantry killer, in comparison to...
    Marauder, staying mostly the same considering it is ES AI, but still being recognisable as part of that family of Harasser weps.

    Enforcer Modified definitely needs to be modified again; it's absolute garbage. Haven't used the VS one, so I shan't comment.

    I'd also rather see the Harasser as a vehicle get some nerfs making closer ranges more dangerous, rather than our close range weapons get a nerf.
    Comp armour really needs to be ignored by tank rounds IMO. I know when I've driven a vulcan harasser I've easily gotten away with taking down a Magrider from full health, and just surviving because of comp.
    • Up x 3
  11. Sovereign533

    'Problem' : TR Infantry range balance.
    My problem is that the TR seems more effective at all ranges. The NC is supposed to be stronger mid range*, a range fights rarely happen in, but NC has to burst it's stronger weapons meaning a longer time to kill. While with the TR due to their high rate of fire and bigger clip size and low to no recoil and tighter bloom are able to full auto.
    Evidence : There have been threads made about this. I'm unfortunately to lazy at the moment to look for them. They have specific weapon stats.
    Solution : I don't know

    'Problem' : Shotgun balance to offset the above problem.
    The NC shotguns are on equal footing with the TR ones. The pump action is almost identical to the NC or VS counterpart.
    Evidence : Blackjack : 130dmg/8m, Bruiser : 130dmg/8m
    Solution : none, ok as it is.

    Problem : Fractures
    From what I experienced, the TR fractures are about as strong versus infantry as the NC shotguns. But without the range benefit, a LOT of damage versus vehicles, lower reload and bigger clip size. Fracture MAXes scare me just as much when I'm on foot at ZOE MAXes, and they shouldn't because they are AV.
    Evidence : The fact you see these used in relatively close quarter situations with infantry. People using them in these places means they are viable in a place where they should not.
    Solution : I'd say to make it as weak vs infantry as the other factions counterparts.

    Problem : Vulcans
    The Vulcan speaks for itself, it's an AV weapon that's more effective versus infantry then the NC AI weapon. Granted, it has a shorter range then the NC/VS counterpart. But the speed how it chews through everything is amazing. Especially on the platform of the Harasser, on the Prowler it's not as bad.
    Evidence : 800rpm / 220dmg/shot / 30 round clip and 2.5sec reload time. Combined with the Harasser to get it close = Murder
    Solution : I don't know, I'm not a game designer.

    'Problem' : Striker niche
    The Striker has been fixed and is a lot less OP then it used to be. But I think it shouldn't be a straight up upgrade from an Annihilator. It should be a side-grade like the Lancer or Phoenix. Find it a niche and put it there. Give the TR a reason to want to buy the Annihilator.
    Evidence : It has the same mechanics as the Annihilator. Shorter reload time, 5x500 damage to 1200 damage, exact same flight speed and lower base lock on times.
    Solution : Find it a niche

    'Problem' :
    The HE Prowler is the single best AI farming tool in the game at the moment. With it's anchor mode it's extremely powerful and fast firing versus infantry. The VS or NC don't have an answer to this. The Vanguard is very powerful in tank vs tank, but the amount of real tank vs tank battles are quite rare.
    Evidence : I saw some spreadsheets floating around these forums to show the data collected. Again to lazy to look up.
    Solution : Again, I don't know. It's working as intended.

    Footnote :
    Now, I'm not saying that all these weapons are incredibly overpowered. And they shouldn't be nerfed into the ground. But it stacks on top of each other. The TR offers powerful weapons without any obvious drawbacks (Harasser + Vulcan for example).
    The NC for example have to trade in something with basically every weapon we have.
    And mostly the same with the VS.
    AGAIN I'm NOT saying they are incredibly overpowerd.
    And not everything I listed here is a direct problem, but it adds to the overarching 'problem'. Hence the quotation marks.
    I don't know if I should post this, since sharing an opinion like this on these forums is pretty much an invitation to trolling.

    * = This is an assumption of mine, I do not exactly know this for sure. And I fully expect to be called on this. I would like to know what ranges NC should be good at then.
    • Up x 6
  12. Febz

    You can't just increase the ttk of a single faction like that. If you're going to decrease the damage of TR weapons then you have to give us our faction trait of high rof, and take it away from everyone else. As is stands NC have the faction trait of high damage and VS have the faction trait of high accuracy monopolized with only a few outliers in other factions, while high fire rate is only just barely held by TR. I don't mind a damage drop in favor of a rpm increase, but the devs have already said this can't be done due to engine limitations, so a damage drop is out of the question.
    That kind of heavy handed nerfing is just going to make this a 2 faction war. I can understand complaints about the striker, the fractures (which, along with all other max av, is getting nerfed against infantry whenever this next patch is coming out), and to a lesser extent the marauder which only seems op because the other options are lackluster or outright the worst weapon in the game, but mag sizes come with the disadvantage of having the highest reload times, aside from the gauss saw, and the highest horizontal recoil. So please people, complain about something else and don't try to outright ruin the TR.
    • Up x 1
  13. Regpuppy

    Personally, I'd rather they just removed faction weapons from the harasser. It breaks the precedent/"rules" set by the sunderer, galaxy, and liberator. Three common pool vehicles before it, and none of them had faction weapons. The halberd is a solid AV weapon anyways and the fury a solid AI weapon. Not like it needed the weapons that were, you know. Balanced around our faction specific tanks

    Also, the Vulcans AI ability needs to tone down. For the same reason the phoenix's AI ability and the enforcers AI ability were toned down.
    • Up x 10
  14. CrashB111

    Except you know, aside from our weapons having some of the worst horizontal recoil in game AND the slowest reload speeds.
    • Up x 3
  15. Bill

    Fractures require alot of aiming and alot shots to land on inflantry to do anything,
    Hammers nor ravens don't have so hard time hitting, and then kill much faster and much more.

    ONLY pros of fractures is that its ONLY tr weapon shooting somehow straight, that is if arms won't X for unknown reason.
    • Up x 2
  16. DashRendar

    Reload time is not a downside nor a balancing factor, it's a secondary aspect. Having a longer reload time does not single handedly balance a weapon having a higher DPS and being easier to use in pure frontloaded damage output potential. Having a stunningly short reload time does not make the AC-X11 a "good" weapon, it's just a small perk of a bad gun. This logic goes both ways. Nobody campaigned for the Vortek to have a longer reload time to stop their crying about it, because it's not an applicable nerf and wouldn't change the weapon appreciably.

    I play plenty of TR, I know your weaponry and I like it, they are very accurate weapons. The horizontal recoil is not that bad up to about 50m, then it gets shoddy, but this is BAR range anyway, even for my NC character. The weapons themselves have so much raw DPS and accuracy that pausing to burst does not hurt that much. You can't say that about the SAW grade weaponry.

    The Fractures have more than one good thing going for them. Don't discount ease of use, which boils down to low CoF, fast projectiles, and auto-convergence. The TR FracMax doesn't even NEED to Lockdown to reliably hit armor from a long range away, but the velocity increase from LD makes this easier. Fractures also have a high magazine capacity, and a decent reload speed. Also don't discount the suppressing effects of inducing constant screenshake on your enemies while not on your own. It's demoralizing and will lead to your enemies doing stupid things like rushing or running out into the open.

    The Fracture nerf requires 1 more Fracture to hit an infantry to kill, bringing the total to kill up to 5 from 4. A FracMax has 20 shots before needing to reload, very little range degradation and is immensely accurate. This is not a game changing nerf. These are still completely workable in AI.
    • Up x 2
  17. Bill

    All of those weapons you mention have their counterparts in opposite factions, performing BETTER and with much less DRAWBACKS if any.
  18. Cinnamon

    The ease of use of the Vulcan on Harasser was something everyone agreed on after first trials on test server. That ended up with it being held back and enforcer and eye of saron being reworked with rapid fire infantry one shot kills and so on with pilots complaining about vulcan so now it is also very good against infantry. Even on my prowler I only use vulcan now because the effectiveness against infantry and vehicles makes it just way better in terms of overall utility than the alternatives.

    Rebalancing av capabilities of harasser guns is problematic because of the overall balance of the vehicle but nobody was really complaining that much before the buff about vulcan being too hard to use on infantry because it's an AV weapon.

    Fractures, I don't know since I'm a pounder heg user. Why would I need anything else.
  19. UberBonisseur

    Call National Geographic, we have a rare specimen.
    • Up x 6
  20. Aegie

    But that is the thing- NC do not have the faction trait of high damage. We have the faction trait of high damage per shot. There is a big difference. TR actually have the faction of trait of high damage in that they have the highest DPS.

    Basically, TR have 1) the highest average ROF, 2) the greatest mag ammo capacity, 3) the highest average DPS in all major weapons categories. Downsides, 1) more horizontal recoil (lessened by foregrip and contrary to popular belief it is manageable), 2) longer reload times (completely offset by have more ammo in the mag), 3) low damage per shot (completely offset by having the highest DPS). Moreover, there are inherent advantages to high ROF. 1) by default you will have better grouping because the gap between projectiles is smaller (this also makes it much easier to hit targets moving with relative horizontal motion), 2) by default you will have smoother recoil because it more closely resembles the smooth muscle motion you use to correct, 3) aside from the first shot, you have better probability of landing headshots due to releasing more projectiles, 4) high ROF compensates for lag, 5) high ROF compensates for a loss of framerate. The only inherent drawback to high ROF is that you tend to run out of ammo quickly, but the TR's second strength is more ammo so that takes care of that- now with high ROF + more ammo you can more easily do things like start shooting before you fully round a corner in CQC- given that we have clientside lag this means you are much more able to take down an enemy before they can even see you are there.

    Seriously, is anyone really that surprised that the faction with 1) highest ROF, 2) most ammo in the mag, and 3) greatest DPS tends to outperform the others? Anyone shocked to find the faction with 1) lowest ROF, 2) least ammo in the mag, and 3) lowest DPS is on the bottom? Big surprise to find the faction that is in the middle on ROF, ammo, and DPS is in the middle?
    • Up x 10