Holy crap, I just realized, the Air game is pretty perfect right now!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DashRendar, May 10, 2014.

  1. Badname707

    No, it's completely different. You have people who fly in this game, and you have people who don't fly. Sure, just about everyone has 'tried' flying, but only a relatively small group of people fly regularly enough to consider air to be a standard part of their arsenal. On the other hand, most everybody plays infantry. Most everybody has at least 1 ground vehicle they pull regularly. Just about everyone is familiar with how air works from the ground. Only pilots understand how air works from the air. The rest gave up, because they found it too difficult. This isn't meant to sound elitist (it totally does though), just that air vehicles aren't like ground vehicles and shouldn't be treated as such. You have to think of them from an RTS aspect; they have a function to perform, and to significantly weaken them makes them unable to perform that function. I can't think of any way you can nerf air that would please both parties, and actually work within the game. I think all air could stand to be made more expensive, but that's one of those things that hurts new players more than established ones.
    • Up x 4
  2. DevDevBooday

    Look I agree, I fly on a regular basis as well.
    No one here really has any beef with ESFs. They dont need a nerf at all really, maybe a tweak here or there but they fit in nicely with how they interact with air and ground and their counters.
    Everyone here who has a problem though are mostly referring to Liberators, which are currently INSANE.
    You dont have to fly a Lib in order to marvel how it just managed to eat 70 flak rounds and it is only smoking to realise its a bit too tanky.

    You dont have to be a good pilot to attack a lib from above to watch it flip and fly upside down, nailing you will the shredder to realise its way too manoeuvrable.

    You dont have to fly to go onto forumside, see half a dozen anti-lib pages at any given time to realise something may be wrong.

    You dont have to fly to see Higby say that libs are overperforming, to know they are imbalanced.

    i think the BIGGEST problem for libs is the lack of a genuine counter or weakness.

    MBTs are seen as OP by some but to counter them are rockets (like flak is to libs) in that they usually take multiple people using it to kill. With libs its alot more though because they can flee much easier than a tank.

    But MBTs can also be killed by mines, or c4 or a deci up the tailpipe with ease, these are REAL counters. Where through superior positioning or luck, 1 man can make the difference.

    A libs ONLY weakness is copious amounts of DEDICATED AA.
    1 man can NEVER make the difference, even in an ESF they stand NO chance against even a mediocre lib crew with gunners (specially if they have a shredder).

    Libs fear nothing,

    Its like fighting NC MAXs in a Biolab but you have no explosives and can only kill them using only automatic weapons and they have Kinetic armour 5. No one likes only being able to kill something by just filling it with enough ammo that it eventually falls over.

    Libs need a weakness, something that kills them within 20 seconds.

    And no, 'getting peppered to death by the combined fire of 15 different sources' is not a 'weakness'
    • Up x 3
  3. z1967

    This is how air to ground interaction works:
    -ESFs have no staying power but are fast enough and maneuverable enough to avoid flak whilst doing strafing runs. Usually requires downtimes after each pass.
    -Libs have more staying power and more potential damage. Passes are longer than an ESF but also draw far more flak than the smaller ESF does. Also quieter than a ninja fart which I hate with a passion.
    -Battle Gals have the most staying power and earn a 3 on the weird-tactics-of-PS2-ometer. Not a whole lot of AV damage but can stay up for extended periods of time and still dish out some pain. Not complained about because they are almost as rare as Decoy grenades. My top pick for vehicle that is likely to be nerfed next.

    I would say that is a fair assesment from the air. From the ground (Skyguard) I see it this way:
    -ESF is the wimpy little bug that you let within 200m and then blast them out of the sky whilst they panic and lag out
    -Lib Nope. Nope. **** that. **** this. and especially **** the damage resists. Needs way too many AA pieces to take one down, especially on Amerish.
    -Battle Gals, Why is it getting closer? Hah, noob is going to crash i- *BELLY FLOP OF JUSTICE*...dammit. Not letting that happen again *the very next day* Why is it getting closer? Hah, noob is going to crash i- *BELLY FLOP OF JUSTICE*...dammit. Not letting that happen again...

    Although slightly silly, you can kind of see where I am coming from with this. ESFs to e are overly complained about whilst in a Skyguard. They hardly can do much to you and you kill them in seconds. Libs tank way too much damage, deal too much damage, and are way too damn fast/agile for the rest of their stats. At least harassers might have run over an AT mines or something whilst retreating. Gals are rarely found and I keep on forgetting that they can belly flop Lightings. AP rounds melt them and I have brought down several this way.
    • Up x 1
  4. z1967

    Just in case the rest of you haven't heard about it yet it was on X-cast here.
    • Up x 2
  5. McToast

    Liberators may be OP or they may be not. Higby wasn't always right so far. He's not some god who has total knowledge.

    K/D is irrelevant. My K/D is a mix of playing on an old core2duo for a long time where I was happy when I had a stable 25 fps and now where I have a rig that's able to maintain 60 fps in most situations, netting me some ridicolous killstreaks in vehicles (not only the liberator mind you) and as infantry. At the moment I rarely log off with a K/D below 4-5 playing as infantry, 10+ when sitting in vehicles.
    But it just doesn't matter.

    Yea yea, rant on. You are the one who's using his banshee/rocketpod ESF mainly for A2G farming. It's no wonder you aren't able to kill even mediocre libcrews. Stop being a freaking hypocrite.

    I didn't say that libs are perfectly balanced. They have too much resistance against AP shells and dumbfires and the nerf to the Dalton made a lot of people switch to the shredder, which is less fun but more effective overall.
    Lock-On and FLAK resistance is totally fine though imho.
    • Up x 2
  6. Corporate Thug

    I definitely didn't give up because it was difficult. I found it boring and most times I found pilots who were really bad that even I could look like a pro when engaging, and after those little fights I had to shoot at infantry to have some fun or hop out of my ESF to feel useful. I do like flying liberators but haven't much since last year because most of the time I found myself just f*gging up fights, I felt more like a troll than part of a force that's actually fighting. Not everyone is going to like every aspect of every game. It might be hard for you but that's you. I don't use max suits but it isn't because playing a max is hard, I just don't want to use them nor need any assistance with my ground gameplay. I enjoyed flying helicopters in the battlefield games and the F-35 in BF2 or the old planes in 1942 but the air vehicles in PS2 are pretty lame and I don't like flying in circles.
  7. Bine

    My only complaint currently are Liberators. I end up in a lot of small fights. Looking at 6-12 people per side. One liberator is all it takes and the fights over. One team can bring 3 or more tanks, ESFs, wahtever. The fight still goes on. But when one liberator shows up its over. There is no fighting back as the only lib pilots I ever see in small fights are the ones who can turn sideways and zoom around a base in circles avoiding dumbfire through veolocity. If you pull a skygaurd the Lib just moves over and daltons you to death.

    I have no problem with a vehicle that needs more than one person to use being strong. I do have a problem when that one vehicle can annihilate groups of 8 or more people with a little bit of knowledge.

    I think making it so if a lib turns belly up at all causes it to drop like a rock. It'l add an even higher skill ceiling and increase the skill floor so its more difficult to use against aircraft (vehicles that SHOULD be good at killing it) while preserving the power it can pull out to kill them. The belly up thing shouldn't be able to be performed for more than a few seconds at a time. It just shouldnt.
  8. DevDevBooday

    Higby says it is over performing, this is stat related, its not his opinion.
    Libs are too good at the moment, its a fact, a nerf will come soon no doubt.

    How am i being a hypocrite? it doesnt even make sense in that context. I say that people who overuse weapons will defend them. I use lolpods. im a hypocrite? When did i defend lolpods or banshee? Im so confused.

    So what you ARE saying is that Libs are unbalanced and need to be tweaked, yes I agree.

    It sounds like you are just trying to defend what even you admit is broken.
    end of argument.
    • Up x 1
  9. WarmasterRaptor

    The annoying controls keep me from enjoying flying. One day... one day they'll let people customize the bindings...
  10. Zar

    speak for yourself sir i do Very well with flak i can make a no fly zone with one max with extended mags with two id kill everything within the hex by myself i am able to make a lib never come back if i have a friend with me ill kill him. please don't say things like "NO ONE CAN KILL A LIB" i kill them all the time its not even hard cause they think they are unkillable. so by all means learn to play.
  11. JackD

    Well everytime iam on the ground and got problems with a Lib i just pull a Burster or a ESF, and afterwards i dont have problem. So?
    • Up x 2
  12. Dead soldier

    You aren't really a hypocrite, just not the smartest. Using AI weapons on an aircraft shouldn't go well at all. Using AV weapons on aircraft seems fine IMO because aircraft ARE VEHICLES. Use a needler for AA and libs probably won't give u a challenge.
    • Up x 1
  13. HellasVagabond

    Good stats but if you are the one FLYING the Liberator you won't have many kills with it....However you will get a bucket of EXP points from the one using the Dalton.......
    As for the rest it doesn't take 8 lockons to destroy an MBT, will upload a video later on to prove that.
  14. JackD

    What exactly is unbalanced at the Lib? I play this game since shortly after release and more or less flew a Lib on regular basis since then. And it got nerfed over and over again since then. And AA also got buffed and so did spawn rooms and people still complain about the same things? And ESF got a a new A2A weapon and LIbs got 3 totally useless weapons.

    Its not the same as ever. A good ESF will win against a good Lib. The ESF can either just stay on distance and dodge which is quite easy to do (but most dont) or get close and just stay outside the Dalton/TB angle.

    And what exactly is the problem with ground?

    When playing infantry and a Lib comes just get into cover. Its not that hard, you just guy into one of those things with a roof or a corner. Only thing that kills me more rarely on the ground then Libs are Flashes and Harassers.

    When you are in a tank dont camp on a hill just stay were there is friendly air or AA and you dont have to worry about Libs. I get C4ed more often in tanks then i get killed by Libs.

    You wouldnt believe how many people just get themselfes killed because they rather shot with their carbine at my Lib instead of just getting inside. Bursters... around the 5th or 10th time one should realize that you cant out DPS a Lib standing out in the open but that you are nearly unkillable using cover.

    Thank god, people dont understand the power of cover, this and lacking awareness are 50% of my overall kills.
  15. Taemien

    Same here. Well I don't use a ESF much these days, but a burster or lockon work fine. In fact I got a lib kill the other day on my MAX from at least 200m out. Good juicy ~3500 exp for it too.

    You know what? I think burster maxes are under utilized. Used to see them en masse back on Genudine and Helios before merging with Connery. I remember pushing all the way to the Indar North WG and sitting in that base to the south of it with about 7-10 burster MAXes daring any air to come out of the warpgate.

    Now you see 2-3 at the MOST in any base when air shows up. What happened? Bursters seem pretty powerful still. Was damn near half clipping ESF's to death. Libs take a bit more punishment of course, but they don't stick around to get flayed in the sky.
  16. Camycamera

    what i meant was there have been "NERF THE LIBERATOR BECAUSE INFANTRY CAN'T KILL THEM WITHOUT EFFORT" threads on forumside lately, and they're everywhere. i have not seen many anti-lib threads here until recently.
  17. McToast

    You tried to undermine my statements by pointing at my K/D, connecting it with my use of aircrafts. Yet YOU are the one who uses his aircraft for A2G statpadding while I try to keep the sky clean. People are given a counter to libs; ESFs. But bad players always argue that libs are sooo dangerous to ESFs and it would be impossible to down them. OHK Dalton blabla. Yet I kill 95% of the libcrews on cobalt with relative ease and I don't fear even the best ones as long as I got one or two wingmen. And I am NOT a dedicated pilot. I am NOT an ace. I am NOT a flyboy.

    Indeed. Libs are OP in small fights and UP in large fights.

    Where did I say that libs are broken? Of course they have some issues. There are a lot of those small issues in the game. But it's not broken or nearly as imbalanced as Infantryside 2 wants to make us believe.
    • Up x 1
  18. MostlyClueless

    It's like there's been a lib patch and it's ****** up the balance. (There was one and it has)
    • Up x 2
  19. Badname707

    And that's the thing: they really aren't that hard to kill with an ESF. Does it take practice to be good at? Sure. I was once in the 'lib needs to be nerfed against ESF' boat, but then I started flying the lib for myself. Fact is, it's HARD to kill an ESF, if the pilot is half good. Sure, it's quite likely that a lib can drive away or escape from an ESF, but it wouldn't be all that exciting for the ESF if it was an easy kill.

    My standard loadout with my reaver is the airhammer (rotary is objectively better, but small ammo pool sucks), extended AB, and racer 3. This is what I kill ESF's, libs, and galaxies with. With this combination, so long as I'm 1v1 (or 1v3, but yadida), I will drive away or destroy any liberator crew. Yes, it is hard, especially against good crews. If the crew is good enough, I might go through my whole ammo pool without destroying it. Fine by me. Killing libs with an ESF is a deadly dance, but it's the boss monster; genuinely satisfying to kill. YES, it is powerful, but it can't outmaneuver an ESF, no matter how hard it tries.
  20. Badname707

    What was in the patch that screwed up the balance? Tell me specifically.