Holy crap, I just realized, the Air game is pretty perfect right now!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DashRendar, May 10, 2014.

  1. Inex

    Thanks for clearing that up.
  2. IamnotAmazing

    comp armor was the major buff, and the tailgun overlapping with the bellygun is a bit silly, but this is coming from a person who doesn't think libs are op
  3. Badname707

    I kill around 90% of the libs I come across in an ESF. It's an even fight, is what I'm trying to get at. They are challenging to kill, but they usually die.
  4. Badname707

    So far as I know, most lib pilots STILL run auto repair. And what was the comp armor buff, specifically? I know lib armor got buffed in general, but I thought comp armor was otherwise untouched. The tailgun is in a good place now, compared to where it was, but I suppose it could be restricted as to be less cheesy.
  5. GaBeRock

    for me, the tailgun changes were actually the best part of the update (aside from shared XP). All vehicles should promote that level of teamwork. Composite armour changes are a little ridiculous, but a few nerfs to dumbfire/ AP resistances all around and buffs to ESF composite to resist liberator weapons could probably fix that.
  6. IamnotAmazing

    The lib health wasn't changed, it got increased resistance to tank rounds, but the health pool wasn't buffed. Comp armor now makes it take an insane amount of tank shots or dalton shots to kill.

    Also the tailgun shouldn't overlap with the belly gun, that's not the point

    Anyway the real reason everyone is whining is because the lib update meant a lot more libs were pulled
    • Up x 1
  7. Inex

    I'll admit, the description of "They're really tough to kill, and I might not even have enough ammo to finish the job regardless" really won me over to the "ESFs are the hard counter to Libs" camp.
  8. Badname707

    So an ESF should always be able to kill libs in 1v1? What would be the fun in that?
  9. Inex

    If it wants to be the counter to Libs.

    You're probably a good, experienced pilot. Remind yourself that for 95% of the playerbase, the suggestion to "Just get in and ESF and {X}" might as well be "Stand AFK in the spawn room and go make a sandwich."

    Assuming this player gets in an ESF, and doesn't just crash into the first tree they find, and assuming they aren't jumped by a wandering ace pilot, and assuming they aren't outnumbered by the enemy airforce in the first place, your description of the fight gives me the sneaking suspicion you actually have to be a pretty good pilot just to take down a Lib solo. That player is going to die, and have to pick somewhere to respawn. They could have saved a lot of time and trouble by just hitting redeploy as soon as the Lib showed up.

    I honestly don't doubt that ESFs are the best option to take down Libs (aside from just pulling another Lib), but that's a problem. There needs to be something in the reach of normal players to stop Libs from dominating the 12v12 fights.
    • Up x 1
  10. Badname707

    Sure, but this game shouldn't be designed around 95% of the player base, and forumside is a beautiful example of this. Experience is hard to counter, no matter what you're going against. If you get good with things, you generally get to live in one longer.

    And no, you have to be experienced with the ESF to kill experienced lib crews. You need moderate experience to take out moderately experienced crews. 1 ESF is a good counter to a lib, and will DEFINITELY keep one very distracted. For the guys on the ground, a distracted lib is effectively a dead lib.

    Also, if you REALLY, want a lib dead, pull another lib or galaxy and just ram it. So long as you get the drop on it, or the other pilot doesn't know your game, the enemy lib will be a burning wreck, and you get to return to whatever it is you were doing.
  11. Sebastien

    Forumside is the vocal minority.
    Besides, the game would be pretty **** if you alienated the majority
  12. Inex

    Agreed, but only as a matter of degree. Designing solely around high end play can work in 1v1 or small scale games, but you can't do that here.
  13. Badname707

    The game needs to be balanced like an RTS. It's the only thing that makes sense on this scale. That means that not everything will be balanced for 1v1 against everything else.
    • Up x 1
  14. Camycamera

    it just added weapons, and made a few quality of life changes on the lib, such as adding shared XP for all vehicle passengers, more rotation for tail gunners, a couple of balance tweaks to the guns....

    that's it. there was nothing that screwed up to the balance. forumside does not know what they are talking about; they have just got to find the next thing to hate on, and this time it is liberator hating time, for some reason.
    • Up x 2
  15. Inex

    A) That's actually specifically what it can't be balanced as. An RTS is generally a 1v1 (or maybe small team) game. Sure, a player has a lot of units to use but there's only actually one player. So given good matchmaking you can ensure that players are usually paired against opponents of similar skill. In Planetside you have no such mechanism, so you need to adjust the balance accordingly. It's walking a tightrope between churning new players because the experts outright prevent them from playing, or bleeding older players because they get bored after hitting the skill ceiling.

    B) Balancing like RTS units is what you're arguing against. If we were actually to model PS2 after something like StarCraft then there would be some vehicle out there which trades against the Lib exceptionally well. Such a thing would allow even a middling skilled pilot to take down expert Lib crews reliably.
    • Up x 2
  16. D3GGEY

    You mean other than:
    a massive speed buff for Racer frame (my Racer 1 Lib is faster than my Scythe)
    a massive buff to Composite Armor that causes Composite Liberators to take more hits to kill than a Prowler?

    You're right, Libs are exactly where they were before and nothing's changed.

    If they made my tank invincible against everything but other tanks I guess I'd call it a QoL buff, too.
  17. Badname707

    A single battlecruiser will probably destroy a valkyrie. 2 valkyries attacking a battlecruiser will probably both survive, and would still be cheaper to use if they didn't. It's not rock paper scissors, though there are things with advantages and disadvantages. The game needs to be balanced like an RTS (with better compensation for population) because if everything is balanced 1v1, then overpop is given more of an advantage than it already has. There needs to be some kind of crowd control that are more useful for small factions than for large.
  18. D3GGEY

    Except that Liberators are just as useful for large factions.

    In fact, what's worse than one Lib over your base?

    Three of them.

    Or eight, which is what I saw over Zurvan today.

    When I'm flying my Galaxy around looking for fights to drop in on, I can use hovering Libs as waypoints. There is a Liberator over every fight on the server.
    • Up x 3
  19. JackD

    Like you said he is a good pilot, but this very often is also the case for Libs. What would your suggestion be for something to take down Libs that isnt OP?

    In my experience a dual burster is enough to keep such a fight clean from air. But if you add something that kills Libs before they can fly away such a thing would make Libs extinct.
  20. D3GGEY

    Make the Liberator's "burn" threshold much higher than it is. Say 50% for exaggeration.

    The Lib then loses a lot of maneuverability once it drops to half health, making it harder for it to just YOLO out of the area and farm somewhere else.
    • Up x 1