Devs: Magrider Issues

It used to be, back before CAI, that without a top gunner the magrider was the worst mbt, it had even worse dps than the lighting and didn't have anything else going for it. The Prowler was just better and the vangourd had the shield. The Magrider had a poopy boost.

Naturally people would rather pull a lightning for it's at the time greater DPS if they didn't have a regular gunner or if they didn't want to chance pub gunners who feel like shooting at every aircraft that passes by.

The prowler, which was pretty much a straight upgrade to the lightning, also had the least top-gunners because most of it's power came from the main gun & anchor-mode, which only affected the main-gun. The vanguard was ok solo and was the middleground thanks to it's shield.

Used to be. Otherwise it has the mobility and freedom of movement over the Lightning which allowed for more dynamic fighting rather than just face-tanking with predetermined results thanks to set DPS levels.

Prowler is pretty much just flat out better than the other three tanks for general purposes. Not really our concern for this thread at this point. Vanguard is the actual worst piece of **** and without the shield it has pretty much nothing but negatives.

Regardless, this is all old news and isn't very relevant right now.

If you are surfing the zerg then it's normal to pull a solo mag and just take whichever random wants to jump in. If there is nothing to shoot, or you decide to move to another fight, they will redeploy. Sometimes it's just means of transport from one base to the next - but you pick them up anyway as anyone is better than no-one. That said I would have thought the same conditions apply to all factions.

It does apply to all factions, but again, having a gunner DEFLATES MBT main gun KPU and VKPU, because the gunner steals kills from the driver, so given that magriders are 2/2 more often deflating their VKPU and KPU, and still have the highest VKPU and KPU, this implies the magrider is overperforming by a significant margin, completely contradictory to the claims from these people that the mag needs a buff in any way shape or form, in fact the data indicates it needs a nerf if anything.

Actually the DPS of the Magrider was barely any different from the Vanguard. Sure it was lower but not by anything meaningful. Additionally the Lightning also out-DPS's the Vanguard and always has. It's not really an argument for why the Magrider is or was UP.

Also all factions use the Lightning more than their MBT. Does this mean that all MBT's suck?

I can kill (without gunner at top), a Magrider AV with Saron gunner, with a Vanguard AV with Shield, I keep ~25% of vitality after.
With a Lightning AP, I do 80-90 % damage by 1 vs 2, so, a lightning AP can kill easily a Magrider with no gunner at top.

If you want to compare with Vanguard :
The Maggie has the lowest speed of the tanks + does the less damage of all.
The Magburner has 20 second of restore for the skill, the speed passed to 64KPH to 90KPH during 0,5 seconds and you return to 64 KPH 0.5 seconds after.
Bad skill ever.

The Vanguard has the better speed of the tanks, does the more damage, has the shield protection.
The regeneration of the shield is 40 second and this duration is 6 secondes, the damage is decrease at 67% in face when it's activated.

All the tanks grow the hills, and the Mag are too low for doing better : Lol, It's so funny to see them to crash ! Ahaha : Noob tank, well !
Maggie can be killed easily by the harassers with rush below the frame and he has no turret for his rear.
Maggies have the lowest speed, and they can dream for trying to retreat (Vanguard ~ 84KPH / Prowler ~ 76 KPH / Magrider ~ 64 KPH).
No Speed + no protection against the aeriens ; even if there is an anti air turret, the Maggie has no resistance.
MAGRIDER is soooooooo BAD.

Rename it by : TRASHRIDER

Data is showing the Magrider is doing pretty well and outperforms the other factions with the Halberd. The A.VPKU slightly favours the Maggie with the AP primary and compared to the Enforcer (though NC heavily favour the Halberd) the Saron performs better.

The Magrider has more intangibles, i.e. things which are not easily quantified by DPS and hard numbers, than the other tanks. It is, in fact, the only unique vehicle (ESFs are different but functionally the same) in the game. I suppose that's exactly why threads like this emerge from time to time. People compare it straight up towards actual tanks.

Yes, Magrider looks like #trashrider in many scenarios. We'll see if the Multidirectional exaust (if it will be released) could change this tag.
I think devs can also think of the option to replace secondary gun with further magburner improvement module. For example "Turbo chassis" for performance slot leaving secondary gun slot empty. This will be the further improvement of heavy harasser concept and make Magrider 1/1 vehicle.
But NC's and TR's yammerers (you can read their posts above - there are a thousand words in every message) will never allow to do this because they need Magrider to stay low

Uh, i dont know if you just dont understand how statistics work, or you just close your ears (eyes) to it because the statistics show the magrider is outperforming every other MBT, by a large amount, if you think its bad, its because youre bad, and thats all there is to it, the magrider is objectively the best MBT in the game according to the raw data.

This is ofcourse very interesting.

Lightning AP deals 700 damage per shot, MBT's and lightnings have -50% resistance to AP so that makes for 1150 damage per shot. At 5000 health that's a 5 shot kill. At max reload speed certed you shoot once every 2,7 seconds with the first one "free"so that's a TTK of 10,8.

Magrider AP deals 750 damage per shot or 1125 damage against the Lightning. That's a 4 shot kill to the front. Without any upgrades at all the Magrider would kill the Lightning in 9,75 seconds.

Hey I might be a dummy here but 9,75 seconds seems shorter than 10,8 seconds right? Can anyone confirm that 9,75 seconds is shorter than 10,8 seconds? So if that's right the Magrider would kill the Lightning first unless one has superior accuracy, right? So your story is basically based on "This one time I beat an enemy Magrider that was 1/2 because he was worse than me"?

Also for your "I did 80 to 90% damage to a 2/2 Magrider in a Lightning". The Saron has a 15 second TTK on the Lightning. Before the third shot of the Magrider (2250 damage received) the Saron will fire it's second load of 900 damage per salvo and finish the fight. 2 salvo's is 1800 damage. A salvo takes 1,2 seconds, so 2 salvo's + 1 reload equals a TTK of 5 seconds. At 5 seconds the Lightning AP is about to fire it's third shot. If it manages that it has dealt 3450 damage. That is 70% damage, assuming the Lightning actually manages to get the shot off. That is not 80 to 90% damage. Also remember that this is only if you have full upgrades on the Lightning reload and the Magrider isn't even fully upgraded and the scenario has favored the Lightning at every single turn.

Now I could do the same for your Vanguard vs Magrider battle but it would be a waste of time. we have the performance stats, they show the Magrider outperforming the other two tanks. Trashrider? Call it the
Swagrider.

I've always said (and still say) that this is the achilles heel of the Magrider. The Magrider is uniquely vulnerable to Harassers.
You don't see Harassers pushing around Prowlers or Vanguards in the same way. Harassers will always charge a Magrider on sight.

Due to the sheer number of Harassers (especially TR), any Magrider is likely to encounter one - and unless they have a top gunner OR great aim OR nearby friendlies, you are in real trouble.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that Magrider main guns should be the default HEAT and I absolutely agree - on the basis that the reload is so much faster, misses are more forgiving and you stand a slightly better chance of survival.


Just make Harassers take damage if they go underneath a Magrider...

Yo can I borrow this name? I'm gonna have to learn to pilot a maggie now but it will be fun.

Demigan is a troll that is spewing out an agenda.

I have been playing since the first months PS2 was available. I have not played regularly for a number of years. Log on every few months, but recently have been playing daily for the past couple of weeks.

The Magrider has alway's been weak. It cannot stand up to one on one fights. Sure, I have had some good runs multiple kills running alone, but that is not the NORM. 9 times out of 10 the Magrider will lose any one on one encounter.

All the real issues with the Magrider have been pointed out clearly by a number of posters, most certainly by the thread starter, therefore no reason to relist those deficiencies. The only way to be successful with the Magrider is run in a group, with lots of support. I do not care about statistics.

The only thing that matters to me is what I experience during gameplay. Only roughly 1,600 of my 10K + kills are in the Magrider. The reason I do not use the Magrider more often is because unless there is a Sunder train and other Magriders to support. 9 out of 10 encounters will be lost. Does not matter about skill. Skill has a little to do with it. BUT what is more important is LUCK.

In SINGLE encounters the Magrider is out classed by everything out there. Forget about winning against anything one on one. Unless you catch them with their pants down, you will not win. Your only hope is to get the first shot in and move and hope they miss a few times, if not your dead.

The best way to get kills with the Magrider. Is to only go after smoking vehicles. IF they are NOT smoking, RUN.

I get the impression that some posting here, that claim the Magrider is so good, have an agenda to gain another edge over it. Since they post so many times with long nonsensical rantings. They appear to be immature and whiny, apparently they want to sway things even further in their favor.

Children will go to any means to get what they want.

Anyone that thinks the Magrider can go it alone, has not actually gone out alone in one.

Ofcourse. But it might already be taken as some VS players who arent completely desilusioned by their Magrider have already called it that.

Its amazing the mental gymnastics some people will force themselves through to still lie to themselves and call something underpowered like the magrider in the face of mountains of raw data proving the opposite. Its just like my thread about how the vulcan is horrendously overpowered compared to the mjolnir, people pulling the same crap there "the mjolnir is a beast, (insert random anecdotal story here about killing something or other with the mjolnir)" meanwhile, raw data shows vulcan overperforming 25-30% over the mjolnir. Its the same story here with the magrider.

I dont think I have to explain this one. Funny how every time someone is convinced their equipment is bad and the stats prove otherwise, that person also doesnt believe in statistics...

That sentence is all that needs to be read for the rest of your post to lose absolutely every bit of credibility, literally everything besides statistics, is anecdotal evidence at best, logical fallacies and agenda pushing riddled with bias at worst, stats are unbiased, they tell the real story, in its entirety, without someones personal interests injecting bias into the equation, and the stats show you are wholly incorrect. The magrider is doing better than every other MBT, thats a fact, if YOU PERSONALLY arent doing well in it, that is the fault of your own skill level and/or play style coming up short, as clearly plenty of others are doing just fine if not too well in the maggie. Please consider that maybe, just MAYBE you have a horrible case of Dunning-Kruger effect, and are just not actually as good as you think you are, its not the tank letting you down, its your own skills, and your failure to recognize that.

A personal attack clearly shows you have an agenda and do not care at all about statistics. The like you already have, may point to one person posting under multiple accounts. Everyone that has played this game since the beginning, knows very well what each weapons weakness's are.

When there are a couple of constant posters that use personal attacks to defend their claim. It clearly shows that children are playing children games.

Rather than actually contributing anything useful. The decent people with honest intentions who have been playing since the beginning. Do not waste time posting in the forums. Simply due to all the childlike trolling.

I will leave you to your child like rantings. Not going to bother wasting any more time with this. This has all been hashed out since day one. To continue is pointless.

All you could do is make a personal attacks on my experience playing. No problem your kind is exactly why I do not play or bother with PS2 any longer. The primary reason why numbers are down and consequently income to further the game along. I have most probably spent a lot more money supporting this game than you. Yet your stand point is to personally attack me and run this game and the players that have financially supported this game down.

Goodbye, I am going to take my money elsewhere. Not going to feed the small minded trolls.

The story develops! The guy is a hypocrite! How shocking!

Edit: I wanted to put his "I dont care about statistics" quote here as well but again, do I really need to go through that bother?

Edit 2: I just read the rest and realized it was a post about how bad personal attacks were with SEVERAL paragraphs devoted to personal attacks in a thread where the Magrider is UP team has been using personal attacks since the first page. Its the inception of bullcrap.

I'm going to start by saying I cannot speak from experience about piloting a Maggie, only from fighting them. But I tend to agree that in MY experience against them, they aren't horrendous. As a harasser, my MBT nemesis is the Vannie simply because of the shield. I generally have to bait it out, leave and come back, unless I KNOW that he has already sustained significant damage.

To be fair, stats without context are useless at best, and outright lies at worst. My prior argument was only ever about ease of use in the Vulcan v Mjolnir. We are still in the process of evaluating ALL of the ES short and mid/long range weapons with a paired crew and the same Harasser setup on each faction. And the Vulcan kills per pull weren't so egregiously out of line as the KPH, and KPH is irrelevant because there are many many more TR V-Harassers pulled.

It's difficult to draw straight parallels because every engagement is different. We have both rekt and gotten the rekt by EACH one while using EVERY other one. So that we are clear, I'm not defending the Vulcan per se - when we go on TR I call it Vulcan Therapy because it's mindless push button fun. But I haven't spent enough time to change my opinion about the strengths of the other guns when used properly, which is really important. If you're using a hammer to install screws, you're in for a fun day, stats or no stats.

As far as this thread goes I will say only this for anecdotal:

The average Maggie has a LOT of trouble versus my Harasser (read: Bad Tank Pilot). However, if we don't get the kill in the outset, we usually die to that Maggie because of all the tanks it has far and away the best reactive chase potential and movement vectors.

I've have also faced outstanding Maggie pilots.

I will say this though - you're using an aggregate stat for ALL Maggie play and then making it subjective by bringing up someone's skill level, which is both subjective and not always accurately measured by statistics. It also has a HUGE outcome on the performance of the platform, because we aren't doing lab DPS tests.

We are legitimately never going to get out of the weeds on this one boys. But always feel free to hit me up when I am in game, I'll be happy to run with you or against you so we can explore all this **** where it's actually being used.

I have since made an outfit (on my VS alt) named "SWAGRIDERS SADDLE UP" and we're going to roll with it, lol.