Devs: Magrider Issues

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Wolfborne, May 20, 2019.

  1. Wolfborne

    I have a lot of time in all three MBTs, and I can tell you that the Magrider falls short when compared to the other two MBTs. Yes, I know that people will say to play it like a Harasser, but, it is a MAIN BATTLE TANK, and it should be able to go toe-to-toe with the other two. Here are some issues:

    1. When it comes to firepower, the Prowler is king, hands down. The double tap shot can land 1,200 damage (AP) compared to the Mag's 750. The reload speed difference is only 0.25 seconds. Most often, the Prowler will have the Vulcan or Gatekeeper as the top gun, and that is just the icing on the cake, especially in a close range battle. The Magrider will lose every time, if both parties land their shots. In a close range fight, such as coming head-to-head, the Prowler has a heavy advantage.

    2. When it comes to armor and staying power, the Vanguard is king. It has a base of 6,000 health compared to the Mag's 5,000 (shared with the Prowler). The shield will increase its armor by up to 67%, making it survive the slug fest, not to mention that its AP round does 850 damage versus 750. Reload speed difference is 0.5 seconds. In a close range fight, the Vanguard wins due to its ability to withstand damage longer.

    3. In terms of movement speed, the Magrider is the slowest of the three. You can't escape the other two by turning and running away. Besides, turning only exposes your rear, which is a death sentence.

    4. The Mag's main gun is in a fixed, forward position. The whole tank has to turn in order to come up on target, and that can waste time in a fight. Furthermore, it sits lower, so, the other two MBTs have the advantage of firing over the top of cover.

    5. The other MBTs (and other vehicles) will drive under the Magrider, rendering it useless. You have to get off the top of them and then turn the whole Mag to try and re-acquire them. With the changes to rear armor, it usually means your death.

    So, clearly the Magrider needs something that allows it to go toe-to-toe, and to give it an advantage in some area other than firepower or armor. That something should be maneuverability to the extreme.

    1. Greatly increase its acceleration in all four directions. Also, make it the fastest moving tank, regardless of direction of travel. The Prowler gets the firepower, the Vanguard gets the armor/health, give the Magrider the speed/maneuverability advantage. If you hold down W and A or D at the same time, the Mag should do a fast strafing circle around its target, which allows the main gun to stay on the target.

    2. Make Magburner a base ability, and change it to a 2 second burn with a reset of 12 seconds. Make it usable in any direction.

    3. Replace the Magburner ability with an option to use alien technology to overcharge a round, much like the Lancer. That overcharged round should be able to do double or triple damage, depending on how long you charge it up. If people are concerned about it being overpowered, then put a timer on it.

    4. Make driving under the Magrider lethal to any other vehicle, causing massive damage, much like a Pain Spire, for every second spent there.
    • Up x 5
  2. Scroffel5

    If they are going to make the Magrider easy to maneuver, why have they not made it go the same speed in every direction? Like if you go 70 MPH forwards, why not go 70 MPH backwards and sideways? That should fix a lot of the problems.
    • Up x 1
  3. Brooder69

    Yes magriders have poor performance , even against harassers as they get under them.
    1. let it have same speed in all directions
    2. do not allow enemy vehicles to get under the tank.
    3. give it a higher rear resistance.
  4. typnct

    I feel your pain, the magrider isnt really a threat at a vanguard nor a prowler

    I think it should just go to 360 nanites
  5. Demigan

    1: The Prowler has a refire time due to it's 2-shot ability. At an RPM of 120 it takes 0.5 seconds between each shot. What most people don't realize is that after the second shot it takes 0.5 seconds before the reload begins. This puts the reload at a full 1,25 seconds behind the Magrider.
    Because of Barrage and the high DPS it has anyway, Prowler remains king though. But some actual accurate information is going to be key here. Also if you've never used it, the Gatekeeper last time I checked was overnerfed. The drop on it's shells is too great and it's DPS in CQC isn't that great, it's not bad but not great. So in CQC you would just pick the Vulcan and at range the Halberd.

    2: A Vanguard has lower DPS than the Magrider nowadays. The Vanguard has more armor, but dodging 1000 damage on the Magrider is a common occurance. While many people will point out that if you aim dead-center of a Mag it can't dodge, it also means that you aim at the smallest hitbox a Magrider can offer:
    [IMG]
    As you can see here, the moment you go off-center the hitbox of the Magrider is already 50%, at the edges it's less than 1/3rd. Due to the Magrider always strafing (if you have any player who has the competence and knowledge to hit either A or D) it means that any pinpoint perfect shot at the center will have to hit the Magrider at it's smallest hitbox area. Compared to the Vanguard and Prowler who will never be able to dodge any shot at all except at extreme range while moving perpendicular this ability of the Magrider is extremely powerful and more than makes up the health difference between Magrider and Vanguard.
    In close range (less than 30m) the Magrider will lose if he doesn't try to close further and get behind or at least on the side of the Vanguard (34% damage reduction from the shield, -15% to it's armor rating). While not ideal for the Magrider, the Magrider has the superiority over the Vanguard in ranged fights.

    3: Magrider already has the Maneuverability advantage, the stability advantage when firing on the move and the ability to cross terrain any other vehicle except the Harasser wouldn't dream off. Giving it the speed advantage would make it possible for the Magrider to dictate the engagement much better than before. The Prowler might be able to withstand this due to it's ridiculously good barrage ability (although some TR fanboys don't know what they are missing) but the Vanguard certainly won't.
    Another thing about the maneuverability is cover usage. The most used and a very effective tactic in this game is to simply hug cover, drive forwards, fire a few shots and duck behind cover when you've received damage. The Vanguard, Prowler and Lightning all have to have their chassis facing the cover sideways so that they can keep driving in and out of cover, as turning takes too long. This means that they show their -15% side armor and it means that in all practicallity only 1 maaaaybe 2 tanks can make use of the same piece of cover. For those unaware, that means Prowlers have 4250 effective health when facing enemies this way and the Vanguard has 5100 effective health when facing enemies this way.
    The Magrider on the other hand can use it's frontal armor, does not have to have it's side armor facing the cover and it can quickly turn and scoot behind the cover from more positions than the other vehicles. This makes Magriders less predictable than the other two tanks in where to exactly fire. This also means that 3+ Magriders can make use of the same piece of cover. This means more targets to pick from for the TR/NC and the damage is spread out over more Magriders. In return the Magriders face fewer targets at the same time and have more guns to fire, meaning more concentrated damage.

    4: Magrider's gun is fixed, which is a mixed blessing. You'll almost always use frontal armor against enemies in a fight rather than side armor and it's easier to control the vehicle in terms of firing and strafing at the same time. Negative is that your turret's turn speed and chassis speed are the same. Fortunately the Magrider's chassis turn speed is the fastest in the game, excepting aircraft ofcourse.

    5: Driving underneath a Magrider is a terrible idea. Here's what has to go right for the NC/TR who drives underneath the Magrider to succeed:
    • The Magrider either has to stand still or strafe deliberately in front of the enemy while the enemy is moving forwards. If the TR/NC drives straight at the Magrider and it's strafing, at best you'll hit the Magrider's edge while the Magrider now has a good chance of simply watching you barrel passed and he'll move behind you for a rear-shot himself.
    • You have to save a shot and fire while underneath, because a Magrider can be off of your tank by hitting practically any direction except in the same direction as the TR/NC is moving (which should be obvious).
    • When firing while your screen is filled with Magrider, it often happens that the barrel is jumping all over the place to try and hit something too close for the barrel to aim there, causing the shell to go underneath the Magrider rather than against the Magrider. This wastes a perfectly good shot and turns the tactic against you as now the Magrider has all the advantage.
    • The Magrider has to pick the wrong side to get off, IE not at your backside. Since the NC/TR won't be able to get underneath a Magrider by moving slowly unless the Magrider is still figuring out what the WASD keys are they will be moving fast and have trouble decellerating when they get underneath you. This means that even if all you do is turn your Magrider, you'll likely fall off the back end of their vehicle as they try to break and now you have a free shot at their backside. If you turn and strafe off the back-end, which should be easy if you just move in the direction your enemy was standing in before, then you have a higher chance to hit them in the backside than they have at hitting you at the bottom side.
    The fact that a tactic that I deliberately pull off in a Magrider is thought off as a tactic against it is just mind-boggling. The minimum requirements for the tactic working for the NC/TR is basically "the Magrider driver is still learning what an FPS is".
    And as I've calculated before the Magrider got buffed compared to the Vanguard in the CAI update, the magrider more than keeps up with the Vanguard in terms of MBT kills per life.
    • Up x 4
  6. InexoraVC

    I play since 2013 and the Mag is my favorite "tank". But I totally agree with Wolfborne.
    In a MBT's duel Mag will ALWAYS loose unless there is green noob in Vanguard/Prowler.
    Chances of Mag to escape Prowler are about zero even if there are hills/mountains because the Prowler is much faster than the Mag and fights are often near roads.
    If you are in a Mag and hear the Harraser with Vulkan, the first option is to flee in panic to frendlies. The second option is to press Redeploy. You can do about nothing against Har+vulkan. The Lightning with AP has more chances to withstand such threat than a slow-turning Magrider.
    Of course you can kill other tanks and harrassers while in a Mag. You need seious skills, terrain knowledge, the luck and the deep knowledge that you are not in a MBT. You are in heavy and !slow! harrasser.

    If devs agree to save Magrider as a MBT they should do the things Wolfborne wrote OR do just 1 thing: make Magburner burn fuel for 4 sec. It would be further progress of "heavy harrasser" concept.

    P.S. now I prefer lightning. Because Mag is dissapointing.
    • Up x 2
  7. Wolfborne

    Translation:

    1. The Prowler has a slight delay between shots, but still comes out way ahead in terms of damage output.

    2. The Vanguard does have 1,000 more health and an armor boost to absorb damage, but, I rambled on about nothing, quoting dodging and missed shots, despite the fact that a Vanguard will shred a Magrider in an up close engagement.

    3. Though I talked about cover, I skipped over the part about the Magrider not having a moving turret that is independent of the chassis, not to mention that the Magrider has a harder time shooting over cover, which is better than moving out from cover in order to fire.

    4. No real point here, just wanted to fill some space.

    5. Driving under a Magrider is fun, as it causes it to cease any type of damage output. They can even be flipped over, and I don't want this little joy to be nerfed.
  8. Pondera

    The Magrider is, hands down, the best MBT on the market today if you know how to use it properly. While it's main gun is mounted to the body, it possesses an arc to its shots, letting it nail hits that the Vanguard and Prowler simply can't match. I've scored many a kill when my plasma bolt sailed less than a foot from the dirt and nailed a tank trying to retreat from me.

    Second, the high profile of the upper gun allows the Magrider to park itself and allow its gunner, or driver for that matter, to pick off enemies with absolute impunity with only that top mount showing. You should give it a try. This is hilarious fun.

    Third, the Magburner is the BEST faction unique ability between the three, considering the NC's useless "invulnerability" shield, and the Prowler able to park itself for proper application of C4. With this, if you are surprised by a lightning tank, you can boost forward, SAIL RIGHT OVER HIM, and spin around to put a shell right in his back. Dude's likely toast. You can do this with a Vanguard too, but it won't be as smooth. Prowlers have too high a profile, but you can just pull an Initial D and tank drift around him. No one expects a Magrider to suddenly launch itself at 100 kph in a given direction, either to retreat from a losing battle, or advance on a fleeing foe, this is definitely worth the investment.

    My own biases aside, I'd say that the Magrider really is just different from the other tanks. I'd love it if they put a parking brake in the damned thing so I stopped sliding down hills when I was trying to repair it, and EVERYONE hates how it just mows friendlies down by nudging them slightly, but those are just some quality of life tweaks. It's a good machine!
    • Up x 2
  9. Demigan

    Besides that you lie outright (like saying I skip over the fixed turret) you simply do not want to hear the truth, or even be corrected on smaller things like the time it takes for a Prowler to unload.

    So why dont we agree that this is going to be a pointless discussion where you constantly say "but I feel its this way" and I could provide the most conclusive proof ever and you would just do the internet version of crossing your arms, pouting and mumbling "but I've seen different and you must be a liar".
    • Up x 1
  10. InexoraVC

    Really? What server do you play ? I need to look at those naive TRs and NCs and teach them how to die of my maxed out Mag :)

    Any decent player knows that Mag can sprint. But this sprint lasts only for 1 sec (if no magburner bug exploited) and after 1 sec magrider will return to "slowpoke" state.
    IMO: 4 sec for magburner should be enough to jump in, make chaos and retreat.
    Again and again - Magrider is my favorite vehicle. But it has very serious drawbacks that should be fixed.
    • Up x 2
  11. Scatterblak


    Agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, the whiners that dig their MBTs will pitch a fit before making any changes to the mag. For now, your best bet is to get threat detection optics for the driver and mine detection for the gunner, and pick your fights. Hossin and Amerish will result in better fights, since the maneuverability is the only (tiny) advantage you have, there there are a lot of rocks and trees and hills you can use to peek-a-boo prowlers and vans. Don't fight either one of those enemy MBT's straight-up - don't even engage unless you've got some terrain advantage of some sort.
  12. InexoraVC

    Strongly agree!

    And add 4 sec Magburner :)
  13. Demigan

    Let's talk about these things now since more and more people go "yargh I want that", and show you how much you just want to dominate instead of have a fair and balanced tank.

    1: Increased acceleration in all directions combined with making it faster is already incredibly powerful. It would make the Magrider's dodging ability even more powerful, and currently it already keeps up with the Vanguards extra health.
    Then the automatic circle-strafe ability. So you press W and A for example, how big would the circle be?. Does the circle have a radius of 10m, 20m, 50m? Would you want the game to play it for you by simply making the circle's center based on where you aim? What's wrong with the current method of "hold A or D, keep your cursor on the enemy tank", which already does this exact feat but not on automatic?

    2: Giving Magburner more capabilities is actually fine, it should be fun using it. However since it would also boost the Magrider's capabilities (especially with point 4) it would require the other two tanks to get buffed as well.

    3: So the Magrider, already the best vehicle to use when popping up around cover, firing a round and popping back behind cover, is going to get an ability that will allow it to essentially fire two or 3 rounds in one burst? Even if the charge-up time took into account reload-speed to prevent massive DPS advantage (which I am guessing it doesn't because you want it to be like a Lancer) it would be a ridiculously powerful ability on the Magrider. *pops up* "here ya go, anywhere between 1100 (2x HEAT round) to 2250 (3x AP round) damage right in your face, want to retaliate? I'll take one hit and be back in cover charging up the next one".

    4: This means that any CQC fight will have the Magrider hop on top of the enemy, even easier now that it's the fastest, most maneuverable and has a Magburner that recharges in a snap and works for longer. The enemy will take massive damage while he's under the Magrider. If the enemy tries to get out from under the Magrider the only real option is to drive forwards and try to outpace the faster and more maneuverable Magrider. If the Magrider decides to get off he gets a free shot at the NC/TR rear armor.

    Very well balanced y'all! You guys are seriously messed up if you think that this will balance the Magrider.
    • Up x 2
  14. Towie

    The 1/2 or noob or un-certed performance of a Magrider has been pretty poor like forever.

    However the 2/2 performance is the best of the lot and previous statistics showed it to be 2/2 more often than the others, I have no reason to think that fact has changed.
    Sure the main gun is a bit droopy but the Saron is very effective and versatile. Add to that the ease of movement even in a zerg, it's a winning combo.

    Just wait for a gunner - problem solved.
    • Up x 1
  15. OneShadowWarrior

    Without a 360 degree turret rotation, it’s gimped, the only advantage this vehicle ever had was in Planetside 1, when you could use hovering in water. In big battles driving these things is like bumper cars, runs ok till you hit something or get tapped by a friendly and your all over the place.

    When they made rear armor vulnerable it ended this tank. In reality tanks only have two weak spots, top with hatches and bottom.
  16. Felberin

    Last I tried using Mag, I yearned for "jump" ability. (or at least "empowered hovering lifting you higher from grouns). It could be used to get in places other tanks can't or "pop up" from behind cover, while exposing more of your hull than ones that can go hull down and only expose turret, they would still gain moments to aim and fire from behind cover making it (imho) comparable ability to using cover to expose only turret.

    And Jumping could deal damage to things underneath, solving the issue of people driving under you, as you could literally stomp on them. This would still harm everyone underneath so the functionality of not killing your engineer when they repair you and you need to back over them or colliding with friendlies with minimal damage would still be there, but when needed you could hurt those who tickle your belly.

    Another idea would be having a shield on the tank, cut some HP, add more shield on top of that, now your MBT can take some hits and relatively quickly repair from them, once out of harm's way. It would fit the "high tech, energy based" theme Vanu seems to have. While not making them godlike when toe to toe with other MBT's. But instead put emphasis on more mobile playstyle, where you hit hind some cover time to time. Together with jumping this could get too strong, so maybe it should be as module or just without jumping implemented.
    • Up x 1
  17. Aatrox

    Yall mother****ers got a floating tank that climbs up mountains for serious flanks and farming infantry mobs,that the other 2 factions cant even dream about. Yet still you cry when you try to face tank a TR prowler or when you let a slug like the vanguard which gets stuck on the first rock infront of it sneaks up on you. You seems to be the problem here not the magrider.
    • Up x 1
  18. Uthael

    i) Remodel it so its main gun can fire over small cover, like any tank should be able to.
    Any MBT driver worth its weight in ammo should have no problems killing a magrider 1v1 as it is now. Some more agility (same speed in all directions, burner buff) will probably be enough to compensate for its other combat stats.

    ii) I'm against strong charge-up. Playing peek-a-poke is very annoying to the receiving side and doesn't help with enjoying the game.
    If you balance it so by trading shot for shot the two tanks kill each other at the same time, it's fine.

    iii) nerf friendly roadkilling with magrider. Make it bump people away and deal a lot less damage. ... Even if that means being unable to roadkill enemy infantry while driving slow.
  19. Whiteagle

    See this is why I'll never support Magrider Buffs, it is THE given reason we got stuck with Driver as Main Gunner, and all because Smedley wanted to milk monetization for the one Weapon Mount that hasn't seen a new Option added since Launch...

    Mag Jump does sound like an acceptable new ability; It doesn't seem to do anything the Mag hasn't already done and just looks like a fun mechanic to play.
  20. ridicOne

    The most remarkable thing about this whole thread is the difference between afew people's view's here and the entire planetside reddit community.

    I feel like everytime I come on here to read thing's my IQ keeps dropping....

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