[Suggestion] Let's talk about phoenix

What I find funny about this whole thread is like the Lancer/Striker at points in time of there lifespan. They have always had the ability to be a very good tool because of the multiplier. The Phx was no exception it has always had the potential as well, it just took NC players you know 5 years to actually abuse the multiplier where people actually noticed.

The Striker still seems to have some purpose and the Lancer has been basically gutted unless you have these mythic lancer groups going on a tear. Now, sadly the Phx doesn't need a nerf it needs a repurpose now that it's being abused. You see how that when you abuse a tool it gets a nerf even when possibly not really needing a nerf. Welcome to Vanu.

The video is clearly somewhat old given it doesn't even feature the reload bug. One would think that if the Phoenix really was some all mighty overpowered force of death and destruction there would be at least some videos demonstrating how effective it is with the reload bug adding to the DPS.

And yet what we are shown is dated footage of a typical Phoenix run.

The real question I have is why they didn't just fire it directly at the sunndy? According to the screenshots, there was almost a direct line of sight from the spawn to the sunndy, which would have been a much shorter route.

Actually the Phoenix's camera is displaced. The viewer's perspective is actually slightly above the rocket; He's just not aiming high enough.

Secondly, if the Phoenix's hitbox was that big, there would be zero excuse why no one could ever fail to shoot them down.

Two of them actually died, and I do recall there were many scratches.

"let's talk about phoenix."
"Guys, this flash just wont go down..."

so... what buffs are you proposing?

as i mentioned, the 2 story building AND the 1 story building were both blocking line of sight on that position

Bit hard to tell with the angles in the screenshots, but if you say so.

The game is free 2 play, download it yourself and have a look at that base

I didn't read the threat past page 1 but you may found that useful.

Source : https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/pc-hotfix-1-4.248213/#post-3490173

Another thing to note is that, at least for me, nearly 2/3rds of phoenix rockets explode on the spawnroom shields.
Which effectively reduces its DPS by 60%+ when inside the spawn room.

Then stop whining on forumside and go try it.

Geez.

If you can't headshot a player that is standing stationary for seconds at a time then maybe infiltrator isn't the class for you. Follow the screaming smoke trails all the way back to their point of origin. Go sneaky sneak in a flank to get a firing angle. Then it's like shooting fish in a barrel. You'll kill all of them. Most will come back for more. Some will stop firing phoenixes (that's your goal) and try to deal with you.

You're trying to cast everything as so insurmountable and horrific to make your point. Fact is if you are getting clobbered by phoenixes it's because you are sitting there and taking it. If there is a cluster of Lancers doing focus fire on you from an airpad do you do something about it, or just ragequit and come to the forums?

Same thing with seeing them. Don't give me "crowded battlefield" as an excuse.

Know how I know it's easy to see phoenix missiles? Because that's how the NC players are focus firing. They follow each other by seeing each other. They can be tough to see head on, but if that's how they are hitting you then you are parked in the open like a fool.

And this "magical stealth" thing...
1. Stealth sundy = c4 vulnerable.
2. You decloak when firing phoenix, remain decloaked the whole flight, then refire immediately. The HAs are *not* cloaked.
3. Knowing #2, no HA worth his salt is going to stand in a cluster around a spooky sundy because he knows it causes #1.

If you want to block ALL rocket launchers (oh please do this with the striker) from firing in the spawn room, fine. There is nothing at all otherwise OP about the phoenix. If I could permanently swtich it with the striker I would in a heartbeat (just my own opinion, others may not).

Looked again. Yes, you are right. He hit his buddy. The hitbox isn't really larger (the other rockets don't actually have a physical presence). The "vehicle" of the phoenix rocket is slightly below the camera crosshairs. It's really tricky to shoot it through nearby obstacles but can be done.

However, It doesn't in my experience work through spawn room shields unless the angle is nearly perpendicular. I suspect this may be the same cause behind why it's useless in a Valkyrie. The missile pops into existence about a meter in front of the shooter and a fraction of a second after it's fired. I think at an angle this makes it pop into existence inside the plane of the forcefield making it explode. In a Valk, it means the missle pops into existence inside the model of the aircraft, instantly sending the craft to the ground for emergency repairs (if lucky).

If this phoenix thing is really bothering people, have faith. It's about to go away. They are going to revert the reload behavior which will return the phoenix to the bottom of the DPS list for every rocket in the game. NC will stop using it again.

No, an army of 98+ once got wiped out by a pair of halberd harassers.

NC is also useless vs air

Seriously, still no nerf on Phoenix...

This weapon "OneShot" easily Stalker + Sniper.
Then, this weapon does high damage on Infantry, Vehicule and Air.
This weapon has a good splash and does more damage like you can repair your vehicule with your engineer max level.
This weapon still be cast in spawn, no problem. 8/
You can do a 180° easily after shoot, and it's impossible for the enemy to hit behind a plain or mountain because you follow...
The weapon has a very long distance of target !
The weapon has a quickly reload even without bug.

AND SERIOUSLY YOU THINK THAT WEAPON IS NOT ABUSED ?!!
(I have this weapon in NC, so I can say that I see of this weapon, in game).

They fixed the reload.

If a sniper is hit, let alone a Stalker, by a slow moving loud missile that can be shot down..
They suck.

This weapon makes the user unable to act while using it, and perfect sniper bait.
A single engineer can out-repair this weapon.

270 meters of flight.
This weapon's reload starts after the entire flight of the missile.

Refer to the arguments about this weapon
To be made practical outside of spawn in exchange for the ability to fire from spawn.

If the Phoenix's delayed reload is fast.
You have never touched a TR gun.

With the bug, you win 2/3 sec of reload, wahoou ! The reload is still quickly. But It was not the real problem !
Phoenix is just powerfull and safe.

If a sniper is hit, let alone a Stalker, by a slow moving loud missile that can be shot down..
They suck.
If you move, the NC moves his shoot also, that's all.
And it's just easy to shoot all the infantry you can see and touch.
There are more and more videos that shows it is easy to kill infantry, vehicule and air, because this weapon is powerfull and the NC can't die at spawn.

This weapon makes the user unable to act while using it, and perfect sniper bait.
A single engineer can out-repair this weapon.
Phoenix > Time to repair the damage did.

270 meters of flight.
This weapon's reload starts after the entire flight of the missile.
On many bases, it's impossible to deploy Sundy because it's easy with the phoenix to camp them and detroy them.
Same for the rest : infantry, turret, vehicule and air.

Refer to the arguments about this weapon
To be made practical outside of spawn in exchange for the ability to fire from spawn.
I have the weapon on my NC and it's easy to hit and kill all outside the spawn, and at large distance.
I don't know where you must have an ability for this weapon.

If the Phoenix's delayed reload is fast.
You have never touched a TR gun.

I have a high level TR, NC and VS (each 100+) and I continue to say the Phoenix is really abused.

Yeah, and outside of Spawn, it is the easiest weapon to suicide with unless the enemy is blind.
Given you can't move, you stand perfectly still & upright, are blind & deaf to everything.
And have no ability to even kill a non-infil if you do hit an infantry unit.

The Moving missile has a crap turn radius.
I shoot them down with a Beamer.

Every NC but 1 guy, is saying change the weapon to not fire from spawn, but make it not suicidal outside of spawn.

Any pilot that gets hit by a Phoenix isn't moving, or is a bloody galaxy.
Any idiot who can't out-repair a phoenix isn't actually repairing their vehicle.


You call a reload for a missile that has the user guide the missile for the entire flight, and then begin the reload fast.
While every other launcher actually fires & reloads while the missile is in flight.

Lancer Squads, Striker Squads.
Any Phoenix user unlike them, is a free kill, needing guards for the entire flight.
Unlike them, whom have their entire weapon sets, and are a mobile threat.

So abused, during the reload bug since finally it was a threat.
And it seems VS & TR can't stand NC having something not be a gimmick from hell...

Alright enough of the whining. I have a very simple solution to stop all the crying. Make an NC, buy the phoenix, And YOU try using it outside of a spawn room, in a decent sized fight, and tell me its op. Unless your enemies are absolute idiots you should very quickly understand why people use it in the spawn room -.-

Make it actually reasonable to use outside the spawn room and then people wont feel like that is the only place it can be used.

you mean outside of the spawnroom it'll be used just as much as the lancer?

First of all just going to say, only read the last 2 pages of this thread so don't know if this is already suggested or what but whatever don't really care.

But how about making Spitfires auto shoot at Phoenix missiles, that way you can't just use Phoenix missiles to destroy static sundy's without firs having some people attack the Spitfires first.

Plus it shows the uneducated that you can SHOOT THE LOUD GLOWING BLUE MISSILE before it hits anything.

Yay, Phoenix sucks again.

/thread

I think it's in a good place. I just don't like how the camera guided mechanic is faction locked. I don't like faction locked mechanics. Like make a harraser gun that fires a camera guided missile that's even slower, and has a larger hitbox. Could be cool.