[Suggestion] Let's talk about phoenix

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kshatriya, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Kshatriya

    Let's think of what this game was like since 2012 especially about empire specific rocket launchers. You will find that the only rocket launcher never been nerfed is phoenix. Since you have removed lock-on mode of striker and you have nerfed velocity of lancer why didnt u ever nerf phoenix? TV mode of phoenix makes no hostile heavy tanks survivable within 300m of NC infantries. My suggestion is to change TV mode into GUIDE mode and give the missle some explosive buff that would be much balanced.
    • Up x 1
  2. Campagne

    Hah! That's where you're wrong buddy! :p

    [GU10/24 NC15 Phoenix Nerf]:
    --Projectile detonates, dealing so little splash damage even a motion spotter can survive in the blast radius.
    --Steering the projectile became "easier" because the speed of the rocket was reduced which granted more time to move and steer within the same distance from the shooter.
    --Lifespan increase only covers the lower top speed, the maximum distance the rocket can travel remains the same as before.
    --"Meh" for third person and hipfire model.

    Keep in mind the Phoenix is and was the worse performing RL when it was nerfed for the second time.
    • Up x 5
  3. Demigan

    Except that it was one of the first quick SOE nerfs ever because at release it could OHK infantry.

    Also, if something has never been nerfed all that means is that it's an OK weapon. Theres plenty of weapons on all factions that never saw a nerf (other than a blanket nerf that affects everything). And as long as they work as intended and arent OP, then theres no reason to nerf it.

    I still cant fathom why anyone would argue "but its never been nerfed!" or "but we've seen so many nerfs!". If something got 1000 nerfs before it got to the right performance, then nothing is wrong with the nerfs.
    • Up x 6
  4. The Shady Engineer

    Phoenix has good accuracy but really bad damage-per-second though. I've had moments where 2 Phoenixes were shooting my Sundy (max blockade armor, occasional hops to driver seat for fire suppression) from behind spawn shields and I, as a single engineer, easily out repaired whatever damage they caused.

    Now if you have a coordinated squad of dudes with Phoenix launchers, then yes, you can shut down all armor from very long range. You can also do the same with MANA AV turrets and they are available for all factions. This is a "teamwork OP" issue instead of a "Phoenix OP" methinks.
    • Up x 3
  5. Pikachu

    It lasted a week. :L

    Is phoenix on the rise in popularity or something? Since it's first nerf I am usually the only guy around using it.
  6. Halkesh

    Do you think making phoenix laser guided instead of camera guided will make people (from both side) stop complaining ?
    I'm thinking about a "mobile AV mana turret" for HA.
    • Up x 2
  7. Demigan

    I think that regardless of what happens to the Phoenix we should add different laser-guided missile launchers to the game.

    A laser-guided flak missile? Hell Yeah! A smaller flak detonation rang ofcourse. Add a variation mounted on tanks for some vehicle AA variation.

    A laser-guided AV missile? Wonderful! In case its too powerful you can always limit the maneuverability of the missile to make sure leading is still required.
    Perhaps a laser-guided AI missile? Fire a bunch of smaller missiles so we dont get cheesy OHK's and I think it could be a nice addition to the game.

    Each missile could have variations in maneuverability, speed, damage etc. A low maneuverable low speed missile would deal the most damage and perhaps have the most missiles per magazine, a high velocity high maneuverable missile would have the lowest damage.
    • Up x 3
  8. The Shady Engineer

    We've got an AV wire-guided launcher already- Masamune.
  9. FLHuk

    Had to give a begrudging smile and a nod to [RE4] on Cobalt this past week.

    They've been doing some excellent "Look how OP these NC15s are, now off you go to the forum!" work....

    Could not get a Sundy or anything near them without going pop.

    +1 Teamwork is OP :D
  10. Kshatriya

    As TR player I'm thinking annihilator is better use than striker then u can imagine a new Phoenix just like an evolutional Masamune . The more I have to say Masamune has bad accury in long range it's just useless
  11. Liewec123

    the only thing making phoenix somewhat usable outside of squadplay currently is the reload bug.
    that might be why you're thinking it is good at the moment, its bugged to reload straight away like other launchers.

    when its working as intended you pretty much have a 10 second reload due to not reloading until you've finished steering.
    this leads to RIDICULOUSLY LOW dps. sure it deals ok damage per rocket,
    but with such long refire times you can't damage a vehicle faster than a single engi can repair it.
  12. Demigan

    From my own experience organizing Phoenix squads:
    Its hard to get enough players to grab one.
    You need a spot where your entire group can fire and steer the missile to the target.
    You need a spot where your entire group cant be sniped while they are firing.
    Situational awareness quickly goes down the drain as players are spending extended time steering a missile to a (hopefully) predetermined target.
    As enemies become aware of your présence, you'll get ripped apart by vehicles, aircraft, snipers and infantry approaching from other directions than the one you are shooting in.

    If anything, this group could have done better with a bunch of lock-ons, Lancers or Strikers, but with more capability to know and coordinate on a target, stay aware if enemies are approaching or currently taunting and stabbing your allies and faster reaction when attacked.
    • Up x 1
  13. Prudentia

    no they couldn't have done better with lancers, as thats literally step by step how a lancer squad rises and falls, too.
  14. NubCannon

    Because of CAI the phoenix missiles from a single HA can just out dps a single engineer.
    The problem with the phoenix is not that it is OP per say, but because it can be used with no risk to the HA leading HAs sitting in spawn rooms raking in certs because they're hitting tanks and sunderers without any chance of dying and getting XP regardless of if their target gets killed.

    I suggest Daybreak removing the ability of Phoenix missiles to be shot from a spawnroom. This would still keep its benefit of being used without LoS but allow for attacking forces to be able to counter phoenix missiles.
    Alternatively shooting a phoenix missile should immediately detonate it rather than redirect it, the hitbox is so small that by the time you hit them its too late for the redirection to make a difference.

    As for the guy who says the splash damage nerf to the phoenix missile makes it so even a motion spotter can survive the splash damage. Motion spotters dont take splash damage from anything.
  15. Campagne

    I'm afraid this is just untrue. Not only do they take damage from splash sources like grenades, but two Phoenix rocket's can kill a spotter with splash.
  16. Prudentia

    well duh it's an anti-tank rocket, not an anti-5$-garden-motion-sensor-from-walmart rocket :p
    • Up x 1
  17. Demigan

    Except that they can keep moving to avoid getting sniped, they have more time to spend checking their environment against enemy attacks and during their firing sequence they are aware enough to notice their allies getting shot. Also, Lancers can operate from more locations as they arent forced to sit behind cover when firing since they can still move and limit the amount of sniper/tank OHK's.

    So not exactly the same.
  18. Eternaloptimist

    I haven't used Phoenix for a while because of the number of misfires and the standing-still-while-firing thing myself. So I have a couple of questions: Tanks can still sit outside Phoenix range from a spawnroom and bombard some bases can't they? And IIRC it can still be impossible to hit Sundy spawn points parked hard up against the opposite side of a building or rock formation, or has that changed?

    I have given up on the Lancer as well because tbh I was never very effective with it and even less so now. On EU servers I have not seen co-ordinated activity by RL teams and only occasionally have I seen more than one ally using the same RL at the same time.

    When I play in platoons the leaders usually call for Lightnings to be pulled to kill Sundy spawn points and I've not heard one call for RL teams. But maybe that is different in other platoons or on other servers?
  19. Demigan

    This is completely the opposite of why people are in the spawnroom.

    Let's give a player two choices:
    1: You sit in the safe confines of the spawnroom and fire TV-guided missiles at enemies passing by.
    2: You step outside of the spawnroom, you now require a specific cover to fire from behind to prevent getting killed while you stand still to guide the missile. In all likelyhood you'll die long before you manage to get more than a few shots off as you are a sitting duck.

    Which choice do you make? Phoenix's have too much vulnerability during their use to be used outside of the spawnroom. If you could still move your character a bit while firing you would already see far more Phoenix users outside of the spawnroom. If you also added a feature that the missile would fly straight on after breaking the TV-guidance the Phoenix would get useful enough outside of the spawnroom to actually start limiting it when used in the spawnroom.

    Yes, let's make the Phoenix even more useless than it already is after all the risk the player took! Great idea!

    Except that you can clear deployables, including the Motion Spotter, with grenades. Weird huh?
  20. MasterOhh

    On Cobalt we had an increasing number of situations last week, were at least 5-6 spawnroom warriors with phoenixes killed every sunderer in striking distance of various bases. Esp. tower bases with their spawnroom on the top, make it pretty easy to shoot every vehicle in a 200m radius with absolutely zero risk.
    One time at west past watch tower it became so bad, that I had to use a walker sundy to thin out the blue swarm (which made my sundy the prime target ofc). I was sitting there for 30 minutes, shooting blue orbs with no reward (apart from imagining those spawn room warriors raging like crazy, and keeping your sawns alive).

    Good ol' lancer nests (as OP as they must have felt to the guys on the reciving end) were at least vulerable to air strikes and harrasser drive bys. Spawn room nixes on the other hand are totally immune to retaliation (not counting people who switch factions to TK them)
    • Up x 2