[Suggestion] Let's talk about phoenix

Maybe I'll join NC alright, and C4 the hell out of your spawn rooms full of phoenix campers. And the spawn room "warriors" will know how it is to be vulnerable once again.

Word of warning, the game tracks that sort of thing, despite what some people think you will get a temp ban if you do stuff like this.

Lot of phoenix threads these days.

Basically the reload bug has made it so the weapon is finally useful and sure enough people are using it.

A couple of words though..If your vehicle is getting killed by it then one of two things are happening:
1. Teamplay is occurring. Multiple people are communicating to focus fire a target. This is *exactly* what dev wants.
2. Teamplay is not occurring and you suck.

Let's focus on that second possibility though and see if we can help. Things you should know:
1. The DPS still sucks. You can out repair it. If it's a parked sundy, you have plenty of time to go grab a smoke, come back, then relocate it to some place you should have done from the beginning. I'm baffled when some engine stands there and lets me work down his vehicle over the course of 2-3 minutes.
2. The shooter is a sitting duck. "But he's behind cover!!!". DUH!!! Go get him. Are your frickin' legs broken? I saw a sniper last night take a 2 minute walk to get an angle, then headshot 5 heavies in a row. All phoenixes stopped. When they restarted it was sporadic, and never got back to full coordination as ONE sniper again shutdown FIVE other players.
3. Ain't no spawn warriors doing squat. The missile will only go through at a perpendicular angle. Combined with the wide turn radius, it's only effective in four straight line compass directions from the spawn rooms. Can you fire from a spawn room? Yes. Is it effective, No. Trust me, you WANT NC to be doing this... because it doesn't really work.

I'll also ask: Have you actually seen what a Terran Republic Striker Valkyrie does? A Valkyrie... kills *everything* in the skies. ESFs, Galaxies, you name it. Does this mean the Striker is OP? No. Teamplay is teamplay. Yes it sucks to be on the receiving end of this but we deal with it and adapt. Crying nerf in the forums about it is frankly pathetic. Same thing with the phoenix.

If they made it so NO rocket launchers could fire from the spawn room, would you be satisfied?


Because I would be fine with this solution. Know why? Because NC gives up nothing and gains something.

The phoenix is NOT effective from the spawn room. If it was, I would do it. Totally. I know you probably don't believe this.

You need to have some rough firing angle on the target because it turns like a pig. It will only pass through the spawn shield if fired at a perpendicular angle. That means it is only effective in tiny slices of direction from the spawn. If your sundy (I assume) starts taking shots from the spawn, simply relocate. Problem solved. It's just not that hard to counter.

Know what is *deadly* effective from inside the spawn? The other two ES launchers. So if you want to block them all, I'm fine with that. It's a net gain for the NC.

NOONE complains about the pheonix shooting from behind cover. this entire thread is about not being able to remove the threat of phoenixes from the board by killing them when they are in the spawnroom. and i guess some people out there are just better phoenix users out there because they move their mouse and do 90° turns during the flight of the projectile

It's more than just the reload exploit bug, there was some guy on connery shooting from a protected building doing a sharp turn over the shield inside to the main tech plant hitting vehicles parked there. I see all kinds of bogus crap like this everyday now, one is bad enough but you rarely see only one of these guys now.

What genius buffed the crap out of the Phoenix while nerfing the Lancer into utter garbage? Someone who doesn't play the game or have a clue I suspect.

I am a person willing to change my position when presented with new evidence.

Show me evidence that the phoenix is effective from a spawn room and I will change my position and support some manner of disable/block from the spawn room.

Right now all I see is a flood of imaginary unproven anecdotes which run counter to my experience of using it with my own hands.

So video or something would be helpful here. Be warned that the following will not convince me:
Some guy that doesn't know how to park behind proper cover.
Some guy that realizes he's taking damage and doesn't try to do anything about it.
Some massive spawn suppression where the only thing that comes out of the spawn and lives are rockets and the outcome of the battle didn't even budge. Zergs like to park and wait for the timer. If this is disrupting your parking and making you actually have to move a vehicle, I'm not sympathetic.

What I think would not be fair: 300m no-park zone around every spawn room. That's BS and I don't think such a thing should happen in the game. You show me this is the case and I'll adopt your position immediately.

Can't visualize this I'm afraid. Firing over the tech plant side shields is definitely possible, but you'll have to work your entry angle just right. What was the location of the shooter?

I play stalker primarily and the whole phoenix situation has gotten so out of hand that I actively hunt these guys when the BS meter level hits critical which seems to be the case now whenever any VS armor attempts to attack or defend against the NC.

I can tell you first hand that if these guys are not firing from the spawn room, the non-noobs are in well protected locations. This means that they are close to a fortified AMS, some nest where there are several infilitrators with motion sensors protecting them, in proximity to meds who can quickly ress them and almost always have engies resupplying them.

Yupp, i would be absolutely ok with that. I for myself never ever shoot out of spawnrooms. Sooo, perfect.

Just watch this video please:



The angles you can turn with a phoenix are just insane. The shooter shoots directly in the sky and can do a 180 degree turn down to the ground again with no problems.

Vehicles trying to escape are just getting rocketed directly in their back.

It is just pure cheese and you know it.

This has been my experience as well.

And I have definitely felt "your' wraith Once a phoenix team starts getting effective you figure 3-5 minutes until the infiltrators start showing up to wreck stuff. And it works.... the effectiveness and coordination of the phoenix teams drops like a rock. (take note guys: Some folks effectively counter the phoenix instead of crying on forumside )

Also note: It's not armor battles that produce phoenix "groups", it's *stalled* armor battles that degrade into a slugfest. The phoenix is not a "carry all the time" weapon. HAs only switch to it when the circumstances are right... stalled armor battles, some particularly difficult to uproot sundy, etc.

Also don't forget: phoenix crews are helpless against air. They can't see it, they can't shoot at it, they can't run from it. Send a single liberator in and the phoenixes will stop. Sure, they might all switch to Hawks and down the lib, but the phoenixes will stop.

Ontop of every NC in this thread claiming that the phoenix is ONLY useful from the spawnroom.
here just one case i got today.
Rocket coming straight from the spawnroom


Flying straight over the 2 story building and the 1 story building where the sundy is parked

in this picture they still went for the easy kill on the landed valkyria as you can see by the smoke trail. but after that they went for the sundy with i think 3 different pheonix users and quickly destroyed it.
if you think about the layout of this base all other sundy spots for it are either down on the street or up in the hills, both providing even less cover than this small building.
and it was really easy to get to the spawnroom in this base, as there is an little alcove to the west of the spawnroom that a harrasser can completely fit behind for repairs between popping out and killing infantry if they were to stand outside for using the phoenix.

Yaya, "Just send a liberator in". Of course.

First: You won't find that stealthed sundy, with the stealthed phoenix users directly near the sundy on the ground from out of the view of a lib in the sky.

Second: Even if you could spot the stealthed sundy on the ground, that would only work in smaller battles, because in big battles Libs are just getting shredded out of the air in no time. I'm a lib pilot myself i know what i am talking about.

That's an excellent video to demonstrate exactly why the phoenix is fine as is. Let's recap:

First, this is teamwork.

It took them nearly the entire video to take out a single sundy. The sundy never tried to move once parked, and they were able to outrepair 4 guys firing at it for ages.

Missiles got shot down.

Lots and lots of misses.

That "dive 180 down" thing you saw... I do that all the time. You're seeing when it works in this video, not all the places where it doesn't. It doesn't work at short range (you'll overshoot before you can angle down). It doesn't work at long range (you are burning too much range going up then down)

They could not actually spawnroom camp. They started to, but it only works in angles perpendicular to the spawn shields so they had to relocate outside.

Look at 4:12 - 4:20...
He cannot shoot from the spawn room because it's not perpendicular to the shield. Nearly blows his buddy up.
When he goes outside he's shot while in camera mode and has to retreat. His buddy isn't so lucky.

They couldn't kill infantry (exception ONE infiltrator)

They hit a stationary harasser. (say that again...a *stationary* harasser)

They couldn't kill a flash (not enough dps)

He can't hit anything in the air. The only time they landed was when the aircraft was stationary.

In short: You saw a whole team of guys using coordination for 9 minutes straight and how many kills did they actually get? And this was against a frankly incompetent team of VS that just sat there and took it.

Sorry, but no. Shall I dig up a video of a striker valk now?

You can't see where screaming blue flame missiles with smoke trails all the way back to the launcher are being fired from. Ok, got it.

It's amazing that anyone can ever figure out where a phoenix is being launched from. They must all be using hax.

If you can't send a lib, maybe a infiltrator would do the trick from 300m out. Assuming he's not blind and deaf like the lib pilot of course.

he couldn't shoot from the spawn cause the phoenix has a bigger hitbox than other rockets and he hit his buddies.

It is more often then not hard enough to spot phoenix missiles even directly on the ground. Especially in bigger battles, when rendering and hit detection just gets bad. Often you hear a phoenix missile without even being able to see it.

How will you do this out of a lib in the sky? Hundreds of meters above the ground? You clearly have no idea when it comes to lib flying.

And to your infiltrator example. Soo, with just one infiltrator you can wipe out a whole stealthed phoenix heavy squad? That i want to see.

Boey must be pleased.
Finally has someone defending the spawnroom Phoenix.

Just imagine the weapon without the oddness that is it firing from spawn.

With the phoenix firing from spawn, with the reloading bug, the phoenix will eventually get enough flak to be ****** further due to firing from spawn..
If it keeps the spawn-firing, eventually it will be based around it -- making it even harder to use outside of it.

A lot of the resentment against the Phoenix is the inability to actually engage the phoenix user regardless of actions.
Not that it barely does damage, not that it can be followed, or intercepted.
So rather than defend the spawn-room capability, how about looking into making the weapon practical outside of it?
Like the rest of NC has been doing for the last several pages rather than defend the comedy that is it firing from spawn.

You know, the worst thing for me is, that those phoenix players didn't even get ONE scratch. No nothing. They could go on and on, without any scratch at all.

You need no medic, you need no engineer, just you and your phoenix.

Sir, as long as they are playing as a team it is totally fine

/s