Balance changes needed, From a VS stand point

The spirits of the remaining Miller VS are pretty high, probably higher than any other server atm. The main reason is that we have managed to hold onto Indar, even when both factions coordinated and stopped attacking each other to force a bonus loss. We hardly ever triple cap continents like the other two factions (now moreso considering the population deficiency), but we still hold with teeth and nail this piece of land we call our own.

The downside? Practically little to no presence on Esamir and Amerish, while guarding Indar means queues on prime time and close to max population at any other time.

Miller VS live on Indar.

Relying on air to move your advance quickly forward is necessary on Amerish (where VS have the best warpgate at the moment, so you see them often there) and at the SE corner of Indar (which is where the VS warpgate is right now). It's only natural people use what works best for them in those situations.

Esamir ... no idea. We don't have a big enough presence there for much of anything on my server, but I'd expect Magrider columns to form still.

When do you usually see ANY AI max units? Bio labs right? When max units you see outside? AA max units right?

How are the other 2 esf better at what matters? We only have rotaries...but so does the NC, so your point is not a good one. Rotaries have the same skill cap for the ESFs.

Didnt mention infantry weapons....read the OP.

here is my understanding.


the LPPA is an AMAZING anti infantry weapon, its also lower end of medicre vs armor, and bad vs air. Its also entirely useable right out the gate without additional certs added.

The banshee is pretty good AI, bad vs armor, and bad vs air (better vs air than the LPPA but still bad). Drains mag quick but its enouph to kill a few infantry. you will want a few mag ups for ease of use, but its not a requirement.

The air hammer is bad vs infantry, when you are close enouph to use it you might as well just road kill em for the extra xp. It is however comprable to the rotoary in AA, more bursty but with a shorter effective range. ITs also good vs armor, though requires you getting realy close to those tank cannons, high risk, high reward. However the air hammer requires mag certs to be almost maxed out before it is actualy good vs anything.

Most pilots use the AH for laughs or comedic value.

IF they kill you with it:
1- They are a very good pilot regardless of weapon
2- You are a terrible pilot
3- You would have died MUCH faster if they had a rotary.

(Scat maxes also are not the problem, its generally the hacksaws buuuut still the shotgun debate)

This is not actually true. NC has the best CoF when ADS but they have the worst when hip firing. VS and TR are pretty much equal in both stats. The NC has the worst CoF bloom across the board. Again VS and TR are largely equal. The NC lower RoF may level this difference out while the relatively slight difference in RoF will not make that great a difference in CoF bloom. If it did make a difference it would be to the advantage of the VS (as in TR would have worse CoF bloom when factoring in RoF). So CoF is a little hard to define who has the best stuff. After 6 bullets VS will be having the upper hand in all cases(ish).

As for recoil. Yes that can be compensate for BUT there is easier recoil and harder recoil to compensate for. NC has the most punishing recoil. Their recoil when factoring in RoF is not nearly as high as the TR but it comes in rather large chunks. As an analogy I could compare it to a drive along a bumpy road. One road has large bumps that are further apart and the other has smaller bumps closer together. The second ride will be far smother. This means that while the TR has the higher recoil when factoring in RoF their weapons are still easier to control (on average). The Vanu are here in a world of their own. With slightly lower RoF than the TR and the lowest average recoils of all makes them the easiest to control. It is with this comparison that the "no bullet drop argument" becomes important. With no bulletdrop you can with much greater ease guarantee that the first bullet hits the head and with the very low recoil you can much easier place subsequent bullets in the head as well. This factor seems to me to not have been taken into account when balancing the weapons. Probably because it is more a product than a factor.

Personally think that the vanu weapons could use a bit more unpredictability in the recoil.... or a bit more damage drop off due to range (keep the minimum damage but decrease the range necessary to get there. I feel the three damage drop-off lines should follow each other)

The TR weapons are frustrating to be up against but pretty equal.

The big differentiating factor among the three factions are the starting weapons. In that department NC is completely beat, due in large part to having the HA start with the hardest gun to use: The Gauss Saw. This is weapon that becomes very powerful as you get better with it and start putting in certs. The problem is that for a starting weapon for new players it is terrible. I am thinking that the GD-22 or the EM6 would be better guns to give to new players. Unfortunately that would make it so the NC HA don't get the big damaging bullets they are known for right of the bat. It is a tough nut to crack.


And well as I have completely of the rail here I think I should stop now. A lot of the stuff I have written is completely besides that point but damn it I spend the time so now I am posting it.

If you don't stop crying, you're going to turn your Indar warpgate into a giant swimming pool and drown your faction.

NC overpowered compared to VS. Lulz.

I generally have no issue with any of the weapons, but since I ADS most of the time, find the weapons that promote this kind of behaviour more fitting to my game style. Also, the thing about recoil is not about how jumpy the weapon is but how predictable the recoil pattern is. A recoil is easier to manage if it goes towards one direction at a predictable fashion than if it jumps left and right even in smaller steps.

Surprisingly as it may sound after all this time, the general perception is that indeed they are. That's why NC see a surge of players in their numbers (less than TR but still ...). While at the same time, the perceived underpowered faction is losing players.

And don't forget that NC have bullet drops, recoil, high CoF weapons, that the VS don't have! So we need a weapon nerf to!
And the reaver is the biggest, slowest, ******* ESF that's why its clearly OP! The VS is well balanced......its faster, and it wins any turning contest in the air, and have the best lolpods...
Oh, and yes the MAX! Because if, im so ****** to run in front of it, im dead. Thats the sign that shows us that its OP.
I think we should remove NC from the game! They are breaking this game.

Read the OP .. Read it again ... I'm still looking for the balance part .. Just looks like " It's not VS nerf it "

Your not keen on magriders being hittable by infantry at range. Check!

Not even sure what you mean by 'maintains the lock' you mean turning them into guide by wire?

Its a shotgun, its good close in. Your edge here is range, use it. What most VS seem to fail to realize is that the high heeled lobster man, as an infantry support weapon is actually extremely good at range (NC max is exclusively AI and AM under, literally every NC player who plays Max at all is trying of repating this. I do care for 3/4 heavily edited videos out there above 10 meters they get crap quickly, above 25m pointless. ). But whatever..

Besides why should all maxes be equal in all situations? All other weapons are not.

Again, shotgun. Make a NC toon and wait for the passive cert gain to be enough for the AH. Notice how useless it is unless you fly directly at things.

I will grant you that when we got that northern warpgate on Indar, our population (on Mattherson at least) picked up a few percent and the VS population dropped. Our VS dominated Indar since launch but post GU2, NC held it for the first four days and it's been neutral ever since, while all three factions swap the other two continents around a couple of times a day via ghostcaps. I just don't understand why VS is allegedly "underpowered" all of a sudden.

I'm not entirely sure myself. Still the 15%+ population drop is real across almost all servers. On Miller TR seem to have picked 2/3 of that number while NC the rest 1/3.

Miller VS still hold Indar (barely), which I would consider a huge morale boost. Still, we're 18% down our regular (and balanced numbers) of pre latest update.

I love how all the nerfs go to the NC because we are so overpowered. The Air Hammer is fine, it was already nerfed against armor it doesn't need to be nerfed again. It is a shotgun you have to be so close to use it the risk of crashing is much higher than the TR/VS. Also the Air Hammer's high damage is an NC specific trait, our ESF is already the ****tiest and handles like a brick and has such bad top speed it is sad. We sure don't get extra armor so leave our extra damage alone for once.

The Hacksaw changes, you aren't wrong about the high damage against MAXes. But then all Anti Infantry MAXes need to have their damage to enemy MAXes toned down.

I certainly wouldn't buff just because a faction lost some population that would be stupid. If they did that what would happen when that 15% came back after the buffs, along with a further 15%? They'd have to buff the other factions etc. add infinitum.......

This was supposed to be true, but I've flown a max certed airhammer reaver now, and it's just really, really good. By far the best A2A weapon in the game. My favorite part about it is it kills so fast pilots don't have a chance to eject and deny you the kill.

I certainly wouldn't nerf them either though.

nor would I; and I can't see any reason they would be nerfed.

Balance changes I would like to see;

1. Increase of MAX units small-arms resistance.
From the current 80% to 85-90% is what I think to be reasonable, the resistance suit will remain as a 25% reduction.
A resource cost increase might be in order after this, but this should more or less solve the instant-death scatmaxes grant other MAX units at the moment - I don't have anything against the hacksaws, I just don't think AI weaponry should be as effective versus MAX units as they currently are.

2. The Reaver(in particular) and the Mosquito need to have their respective hitboxes reduced to match the Scythe.
Seeing as a smaller target is harder to hit, this change would increase the skill-cap of pilots rather than reduce it.
As a minor note, in the tests I've seen done the ESF's are roughly equal in terms of agility(stock), though inertia and speed differ.
Said tests are quite old now though.

3. The annihilator should be removed, or reworked.
It cannot be allowed to lock-on to both air and ground, it gives too much flexibility to HA's, they effectively don't have any weakness.
I should note that I highly praise the tracking the annihilator has - the intercept allows it to be reliably evaded as well as reliably hit.

G2A lock-ons featuring the annihilator tracking should be fine.

4. A2AM should be removed or reworked.
As I'm not sure how they can be reworked, just remove them. (suggestions welcome)

5. G2G lock-ons should be replaced by wire-guidance.
The advantage of wire-guided missiles is the ability to hit things behind small hills, the "downside" is the requirement to aim.
Though, if you release your aim it should continue on its' course like a "dumbfire" rocket.

6. All tanks should be better able to scale inclines.
As the magrider's forte is mobility, it should be better than the other tanks in this regard.

Saron functionality change;
Could have a charge-up time of around a second before firing. (click & hold - release to shoot)
Automatically fires after 2 seconds. - thoughts?

I'm sure I'll be promptly informed of my skewed views of balance due to my admittedly limited perspective, as I haven't played TR at all, or NC very much. (what little I did play as NC, I did like very much though.)