My first post says Cure arcane and elemental should be nerfed, its honestly the only logical one that needs to be toned down, the others were just a way to get under your skin. The charm wasnt 15seconds your wrong again about knowing ablites.
The PvP Duration of Miracle Charms was always 10+ seconds.. but since they were not meant to be used in PvP I really don't know what they changed it too since you couldn't use them when engaged in PvP combat. either way, using broken mechanics like miracles before pvp combat is sort of cheating. I can understand the cure thing as i said.. but not a complete nerf without getting anything in return.. maybe a PvP Detarget instead of a cure
I think all the mez/stifle/stuns like what illusionsts have for example should have a long reuse time. Shouludn't be able to restun/stifle/mez on a 3s recast, considering you only get a few seconds of immunity for each one of these. If it was back in TSO where it took a while to kill someone geared, that would be fine, but now when you die in 2-3 seconds, but you can be chain stun/stifle/mezlocked for 15 seconds straight without being able to do anything during that period, what does that tell you? CC shouldn't be spammable IMO, it should be used when it is required, and should be reliable, making it more skill based. I mean if you think about it since this is a troub thread, the mez also stuns for..3 seconds? not sure exactly ont he number but you can get mezed, then the stun procs, then they can do a stifle , then the mez immunity is nearly gone already so you only have several seconds to do things then you can be mezed again. Also there are certain abilities that seem to go through the immune system like procs on gear, and some enchanter abilities that do encounter stun/stifle/mez seem to not proc immune for single target mez. Haven't had enough time to test everything yet.
They are, illusionists can easily do 12k in pvp, if they are good. Is anyone complaining about those?
Oh yeah, and some help for all you rogues out there. If you think walk the plank is broken, think again. If you WTP someone, you can use back attacks on them NO MATTER WHAT DIRECTION they are facing or where they are moving to. It works like this in pvp because of lag issue and other issues with movement, but it's your #1 skill for killing someone. WTP, root, stun, chained together they can't get away for at least 6-7 seconds and with full cast/recovery u can get off 12 combat arts, evading first so they can't stun you to avoid it.. Hopefully this helps some pepole
the problem with a troub, is we only have mez (so do swash)... we have less of every other CC than every other scout this is not very good considering we are supposed to be CC specialist after Illu. comparing Troub to Illu which have long range stun/stifle/root/teleport/mez is not too good of a comparison though.. as we cannot lock down with a 2 second stifle.. and we certainly don't want to be stood next to a rogue using our stun. and the troub stifle lasts 2 seconds now.. it used to be 8 when people are talking about.. you can mez, do some stuff, then mez again 10 seconds after the mez is broke... that's assuming you break the mez at 9.999 seconds.. then mez instantly after the mez mmunity as worn off.. it's never going to happen except against maybe a tank.. @Luanne, i know what you mean about Illu's though.. they are rock hard if they are good..
Acoloss I appreciate that you are attempting to protect Troub abilities but your last post is completely false. A Troub has the potential to perma CC single target. I have tested this on live server and it does work, and with the proper UI addons its not near as hard as you might think. I haven't perfected it but I rarely offer the player i am CCing more than .3-.5 secs to retaliate. Before I go into how let me give you a list of my abilities/duration/reuse. Evade/3/11.1 Mezz/10 + 2.7/8.3 Singing Shot/2/14 Evasive Maneuvers/1.8/33.5 Cheap Shot/3.2/10 Round Bash/1.9/25.1 I'm only 85 so my reuse isnt capped but its still high enough to make this work. there are more than likley several ways to do this but what I have found works best for me is: Evade->Mezz->Singing Shot->Evade->Evasive Maneuvers->Cheap Shot->Mezz The second rotation is the same excluding the first evade and replaceing the evasive manuevers with round bash as their cool downs require them to be rotated. This is obviously completely unnecessary and with the HEAPS of CC breaks in this game rarely 100% successful. I would like to point out that this was not possible before they nerfed CC durations and the troubs potential CC is infinitly higher now that it has been nerfed. It would also not be possible if mezz had a 30 immunity. Long story short, coming from a troub who loves his class. Mezz should have a longer immunity for the sake of balance. Its all i believe is nessasary and would make it impossible to do what i discribed above. Now for those complaining about troub CC. Everything above is 100% counterable for a well prepared PVPer who knows when to use what. We all know about the PVP CC break charm, stun/stifle pots, fear/root pots, and Vessel, but there are also Crystal of discords for Mezz, Shroud of discord for Stun/Stifle/Fear, Shield of Discord for taunt/snare/root. You can cure evade with a simple elemental pot and cure snares with arcane. The bottom line is at the end of the day, the better prepared PVPer wins, not the better class. Be alert, the world needs more lerts.
Do you know how many times singing shot lands lol Your, numbers are wrong... And if you look at the videos. you only need 2 to 3 seconds to kill a troubadour... You could kill one in 1 freedom of min duration... 3seconds. There's only you with a problem with troubadour In regards to balance... Why is it that a brigand can kill me... Warlock... Coercer... Enchanter... Ranger etc etc But you can't... Think about what the problem is here
Very well said and put together... with great information/data on exactly what is happening. It is nice to have an un bias opinion that realizes the issues that all classes are dealing with when facing classes with Mez... and concerning Troubadours specifically. While I do agree that generally the better player will win the PVP encounter... that really isnt always the case in situations where said class has an unfair advantage that needs to be balanced to even the playing field. I am sorry but I completely disagree and here is why... Unless the Troubadour is an inexperienced player without PVP gear and just stands there dieing... then a well geared Troubadour on par with their PVP opponents gear will not be dieing in 3 sec or within 1 freedom of mind duration. Especially when you take into account all they have to do is pop Veil of Notes and they are guaranteed to live for 12 sec... and they can also use Bagpipe Solo to heal themselves. So this is a false statement when both players are experienced and on par with each other gear wise. Singing Shot actually lands most of the time, but not all the time because its a melee combat art... and not spell dmg like you are used to landing 100% of the time never being resisted. Singing Shot does have a chance to blocked/parried/riposted etc just like any other melee combat art. Which is completely normal for melee combat arts, its something that you learn to accept when you are a melee based class. Not having 100% of your spells/combat arts land every time is probably annoying when you are used to having them always land 100% of the time because they are magic damage based. They should consider fixing resists and making magic dmg possible to completely resist so it doesnt hit 100% of the time... then it would be the same as all melee combat arts already are.
This message is to slant and Ecnomorc stop lying Ecnomorc and friend.. this is getting tiresome.. even my mortal enemies in this thread agreed that the only thing wrong with troubadour is the cures... perma lock a single target? lol.. have you played against an illu then? to do what you are saying in that order, i'lll give you a break down..... 1. You would have to break mez on EXACTLY 10 seconds.. maybe using some sort of third party program this is possible with no lag. 2. The other player would have to not be using freedom of minds (which is stupid)... 3. Evasive Maneuvers is a long recast.. so you could only do this ONCE. not repeat the process. 4. The other player doesn't have cure pots (you can cure evade) 5. Singer Shot has to land (it doesn't, has about 20% chance on a scout).. don't forget, no strike-through. 6. The other player doesn't have runed victim skull. 7. For Cheapshot at anytime, you need to be stood next to them.. you don't want to do that with a rogue, and a ranger is always running.. so you can remove cheapshot from the list of your chain. 8. you'd need to mez exactly after immunity has expired (with the combination of exactly doing things after the stun has expired) So.. your chain is completely wrong.. and even if it DID work, you'd be able to do it once if you was a Cylon. Your most important error here.. is a Rune Victim Skull.. which if you use right away gives you 20seconds of immunity to Mez. Personally I think it should be removed from the game.. but that's just me and to also ruin your "Research" -- there is the cast time on all the spells, and you'd have to exactly cast the spell the "cast time" amount before the other wore off EXACTLY... it means.. you'd do zero dmg even if you was a robot and could do such a thing. First you try to nerf my class because you lost in PvP to me.. and you make some serious errors in your "research", such as firstly assuming there was NO mez immunity.. then realizing there is.. then saying there is still a problem due to being embarrassed on eq2flames. now you start analyzing my videos for my technique... how about you try to copy it? What you are saying here is just made up stuff.... you could say the same for any class tbh you have evade, you have evasive maneuvers, you have cheapshot, you have another stun? a root.. 3 snares.. so... from all this.. you can do a chain that gives you 8-9 seconds of the opponent not being able to do anything which is enough time to kill practically anyone... and that's not including your snares. when you get a Troubadour doing the same thing, let me know. You are comparing yourself ecnomorc vs me.. not a good combination. What you are asking for is a nerf to Troub and Enchanter.. as, my ability to lock down is impossible.. i can be locked down the same or more from a swashy/brig.. I'll give you a tutorial on the mistakes you made when we fought.
Freedom of mind pots are only good once per fight if yours is up because they are a very long recast... mine is roughly 15mins. This would cure the 2.5 sec stun at the end of your mez, but then it would be down the entire rest of the fight and you would have no way to prevent it again... thus why you would have basically a full 10 second mez from there on out in the fight... 2.5 of which you can actually hit your target and deal dmg since its actually a stun at the end. Curing Evade is rarely valid since there are far more important debuffs that need to be cured during the very small window that you have with mez immunity. Singing shot hits far more than 20% of the time... even without strikethrough. Rarely do players use the Runed Victim Skull because it requires sacrificing a good charm slot but yes it is valid 1 time (of course you want it nerfed so nobody can have an anti mez against you). Unfortunately its only going to prevent mez 1 time every 6 mins in a fight that the player is being mezzed multiple times... usually about once very 20-30 sec since their mez is always up due to recast being lower than the duration of their mez/the mez immunity. Obviously you dont know the Ranger class very well and you must be seem to be mistaking your move and cast class with my... sit and cast class. Yes we have to move and run around, but we are not quote "Always Running" as you have said. Also since your incombat run speed is slightly higher than other scouts.. 5-10% due to your incombat run speed song still working in PVP. It is possible to get in melee range for cheap shot without much effort. It is far from impossible thats for sure... You wouldnt have to mez exactly when immunity dropped 20 seconds after the inital mez was cast... you could easily cast it .5 or 1 second after and completely immobilize your opponent once again and also be able to stand in melee range on them for when mez breaks to stifle/stun etc. So yes you can effectively chain CC someone doing what he said above... using a combonation of Mez, stun, evade and stifle. Sure there may be VERY small windows in between if you didnt cast perfect... but that would not prevent you from doing what he is describing. The MAIN reason this is possible is because mez immunity is so short... not because the other CC spells are over powered. The mez immunity timer simply needs to be increased to double or triple the duration of the mez so you do not constantly have your opponent immobilized. Illusionist are a completely different class, one that is far far squishier with little to no survivability in PVP unlike Troubadours who have heals, dmg prevents/parry buffs (that allow them to continue attacking while invulnerable) i.e. VoN and BPS + Dodge and Cover etc.Therefore your comparison Troubadours and Illusionist is invalid and a very poor example.
there are no other important debuffs to cure except my snare, which breaks easy. singing shot does not hit more than 30% of the time on a well geared scout. Can you tell me what a troubadour is supposed to do, when he doesn't have any CC effects against any scout that can kill you in less than 5 seconds? I'm making a video for you .. a tutorial.. will be ready in 5 minutes.. wait up, i hope it helps.
No scout can kill you in less than 5 seconds because of the simple fact that you have a wonderful 12 second parry all/invulnerability spell/AA called Veil of Notes (that you can still fully attack with while burning) and a wonderful heal called Bag Pipe Solo. Not to mention you can still mez the player at the start, which will always give you complete control of the fight again. To say that any scout can kill you in 5 seconds, (I thought you said it only took 3 seconds earlier???) would mean that you are just standing their choosing to die... instead of using the AMAZING survivability abilities that you have. I am sorry but your video tutorial cannot accurately reproduce real world PVP encounters and the extreme dynamics that go into each fight. At best it can show you what you COULD do in a perfect situation or you SHOULD try to do. Also I am afraid your video will be BIAS just as you seem to be and I would prefer that we had some independent tests done by the Devs themselves and multiple other players so we can all see a variety of possible outcomes and an overall picture of how the fights unfold. This way we can take and view all those fights to find what usually happens.
Excuse me sir, please stay on topic we are in the Test Section... and this is a place for constructive forum posts that directly concern the subject at hand. Is there a reason you feel the need to degrade and make fun of other players that happen to have a different view than you on what would help balance PVP when it concerns you class directly? Please just stay on subject and lets discuss this like civil people so that we may come together for the betterment of PVP balance. Thank you...
also i forgot to mention (or did i?) If you use Runed Victim Skull when mez is first cast.. that's 20seconds immune to mez. and this thing you keep saying about shouldn't be able to mez someone 6 times in a 2minute fight (which you'd have to be a supercomputer to do)... no fight with a scout lasts that long.. all the brigs/swashys/rangers that have killed me, have killed me before or after the second mez also in the video, note, because i've fought against many rangers, i know that i need to be on top of them.. as do all scouts.. if i was a shash/brig/assassin you'd have died so quick. You really need to try to get more range
Oh why yes sir you did mention that already on post # 90 and I quoted with a very detailed response in post #91. You also seemed to have read my response concerning Runed Victim Skull already in Post #92 where you quoted my post #91. In case you didnt fully read what I hate stated and you quoted concerning the Runed Victim Skull please re read my post #91.
Once again, I never tested any of the CC/crowd control effects in any duels, I tested everything on live in the island of mara with multiple players from both sides. I do not know why you continue to say I tested it in duels even though I clearly stated on page 1 of this thread that it was never tested in duels... just as I am having to explain to you again. Please refer to the first page... where I completely admitted being incorrect on how the mez immunity was working and I corrected myself after testing it thoroughly. Anything else constructive you have to add or new to add? I would prefer to not go around in circles repeating myself and instead have you full read and comprehend what I have said on each post before making your posts. It would really help us discuss this constructively if you knew exactly what I have said previously before replying. Thanks...
Oh also sir, would you care to show the videos of our duels in Common Lands instead of the video of the first day I got back from a long break from the game and before I reforged to a better setup etc. The videos you are showing were clearly not good examples of how our duels in Common Lands were playing out. It would be far more constructive if you could show those since they will show multiple fights with you mezzing every 20-30 roughly 4-6 times total in our fights that were 1 1/2 to 2 mins long. Please do post those up... instead of criticizing the fights that I admitted I was not at my best due to the reason I already stated above. Thanks
i feel like troub will be a pinata if you nerf mez for them. I know that when you mez you get your chance to lock a person down, but alot of times it doesnt even work. The good thing about troub is that even if you fail at locking a person down there is usually a fair chance you can either evade till you can try again or escape. If you look around nagafen, there isnt a million troubs running around being the OP class. It just seems to be a frustration that someone doesnt know how to respond to yet, and that makes it not worth nerfing imo.
Thank you sir. <3 @Ecno In the fights in CL, i never mezzed you that many times, because you used broken game mechanics in 4 out of 5 of the fights so you was un-mezzable (see thread on EQ2Flames).. Also note.. you should remember your quote on EQ2 flames blaming your gear and reforge.. This was the order of your excuses BPS (but never used it) Then your gear and reforge. Then VoN Then Mez Then also think you are not playing one of the most OP 1 v 1 classes in the game. There are many rangers that are killing people atm... yet there are probably more troubs in PvP, and none are killing anyone in 1 v 1, unless using un nerfed BPS. if you stand close you wil be stunned.. if you keep running and snare (and don't do dmg) you will get range on me.. if i snare you and dmg you.. the snare will break... try to keep running in future Now check this fight.. a Brigand... I've flamed this guy.. but if i'm honest... this is a brigand that knows how to play his class.. he is on par with me (more ego for me).. he knows how to time his evades/stuns. Best brigand i've fought on the server so far. This is a brigand that is wearing PVE gear... and also note, he's killed me as well.. 1 - 1. If a brigand can kill me.. a ranger most DEFINITELY can kill me any reduction to my mez would mean guaranteed death.. and yes i'm egotistical, but, currently, there are no troubs that have the experience as me... sorry i don't like saying it. that is what a balanced game fight looks like (yes i have health left.. but if my mez would have cast 0.2seconds later, i'd have died.. unfortunately i didn't record the one in Mara, of which he won, by a more significant amount. but then, look how you did:
