PeterJohn wrote: I've definitely considered it! At this point we are already halfway thru HM content and the MT inquisitor is pretty etched in stone, I've been playing my chanter so I don't think the RL would want to pause and gear me up. It's a shame as I MT healed all the past 3 xpacs, and I was given a choice as I think my Templar would have been tolerated since I've been with them since day 1, but I had to put that aside and just sit him for the good of the raid. I have to agree with you that we rarely see the MT go down, it's just not very much of an issue. I can't really put my finger on it, but the changes you guys discuss were pretty apparent to me in just comparing how my HPS in SF was very close to the defilers, where in DOV my HPS was very low compared to the defiler, and even compared to the rest of the raid healers when I was MT healer with him. In looking at ACT part of the reason is the lack of arcane AOE's this xpac and also involuntary cure used to parse very high in SF, not sure what changed in DOV but now it's just meh, but otherwise the defiler was just overpowering my heals to the point where the only thing I was doing was rotating the group cure and helping mop up AOE damage with my group heal. I've always been against playing an inquisitor just personally I enjoy the more "pure" classes, I always thought of a Templar as a "pure" healer who sacrificed everything else in order to be the strongest healer. With my Templar being sat out though and really collecting a lot of dust maybe I will betray him over and goof around with him, I'm sure I could grab a spot in one of our DPS groups.
I don't recommend betraying... Just make a new toon. Only 5 bucks for the additional character slot if you have lots of baby alts like me, and you should be able to get him to 90 in a week with decent AA... And of course now Ry'Gor gear is really easy to get, so you're gear won't be all that bad. Until they fix the issue with inquisitors being overpowered, just do what is good for your raid force
PeterJohn wrote: Spot on. The only people I run into thinking you still want a templar on the raid, are the same ones that haven't realized brawlers are the best MT hands down. Even when the MT goes down, its for one of two reasons: 1) Something hit the tank that should never have hit them. Coop strike, angry red text, whatever. In general a combat hit that is well over 100k damage and had all things gone as intended would never of hit them. No matter what healers were on him, there was no chance of 'healing thru it'. 2) Failure to cure It is just so incredibly rare for the MT to go down simply due to lack of heals per second. In a game like this, templars are no longer desired in raids. Sorta like druids a few expansions back, choosing to bring them over any other healer was the wrong choice. FWIW, my other main is an Inq, and I raided a templar in past expansions, fairly familiar with both's strengths and weeknesses.
PeterJohn wrote: This is exactly what I did, took me about a couple of weeks to get him to 90 and a double xp weekend to get him to 300. They are a ton of fun, that's for sure but I still miss my Templar from time to time.
Guys, don't talk like that. After reading all this I'm actually considering making an Inquisitor and benching my 6-year played Templar for the very first time ever. I hold lots of crafter, but only 1 level 90 adventurer all the way through my 6-7 year of playing, or however long it's been since launch, Templar !!! Seriously, I never thought this day would come.........
you know what, brainstorm idea !! Istead of everyone making 2 clerics or betraying back and fourth. Maybe there should really only be 1 class, cleric. And from there we should have the option to go Templar Stance or Inquisitor Stance like we have Offentive and Defensive stances now..... Maybe put it on a 12 day "reset/recast" timer or something... that way people can play the class mostly needed or what's best suited for whatever situation.. Crazy idea, just thought I'd throw it out there as long as I'm here. lastly, all this time I've played a Templar, I've never been active on these forums. never had the need for it. DoV pushed me in here. Read into that what any of you want, that's just another fact.
bigmamma wrote: I think this idea is way off the path in terms of addressing the problem simply because it still doesnt address the issues but cant say I fault you on posting it here, I thought about this once or twice. I am still raiding an assortment of hm/em zones in the mt group but this is due to part legacy part skill as my RL has not asked me to betray or play my inquis (I only use him for zone runs or x2 runs for a distraction). The problem I've seen in this thread and many others on fan sites is the excuse that we have not run hm zone x, y and z and if we did we would see how needed a templar is (Dev's use this line alot in the past as do "top" raiders). Problem with this autoresponse by people like Avir is quite simply its a smoke and mirrors response that tried to sideline discussion. The reality is this plain and simple the zones they refer to are the drunder hm zones however as was show the devs have begun nerfing the content and will continue to do so simply because they wanna ease the process of guilds clearing them to be able to get into Plane of War. Continued nerfing of the zones regardless if warranted simply reduced overall strength of heals (one aspect where templars still hold the high group but are rapidly losing the gap to inquis) thus making even easier for an inquis to tandem in mt group. In terms of key issues that yet to have been addressed by anyone attempting to derail this thread or even a dev for that matter are as follows: 1) Our stoneskin needs to be updated to work on flurries/ma from the mobs/names 2) Our arcane ward with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 names xpac wise is nearly useless (I say nearly as most of us use it to get our procs working. If content is not hitting with massed arcane dots that our ward may be of some use (power drain absortion anyone) then at the very least change the aa ability so that it give ward protection with another secondary damage type possibly trauma as no healer has this specific ability in any of their wards 3)The smite wrath immunity needs to go, if done this will not put us at inquis personal dps but would bump our personal dps capabilty slightly especially with content that demand more and more raid dps to clear it 4) With one group cure handling the dot crazy content that is the majority of raid scripts nowadays we can use either a second group cure or a drastic reduction if reuse on our one group cure. As an alternative adjust mana cure from a hit or miss proc to a flat buff that cures everytime or with some sort of secondary proc attached to it maybe slight group power regen 5) Spells like divine arbitration and reverance are so outdated for current content its not even funny. I still occasionally use DA when the tank does a long body pull for quick boost of hp but the need is extremely rare. As for reverance the hp conversion is woefully underpowered as such possibly change it from single target to group and bump the conversion rate from 240% now to say 400 - 500% but increase the recast time and maybe allow its conversion to work with heavy power drains 6) All our rez abilities need to be looked at especially our single targets, sorry but needing to stand directly over someone to rez during combat is extemely lame 7) Possible change on glory (this is a would like but not a needed change) make it a group buff (use our 2 free con slots dont really care) instead of a single target buff ability. Remember none of any of these changes will increase in any signiticant way either our heals, cures or dps but would allow better flexibility and buffs to the group...just my two cents...Lets try and address these issues and any other ideas any of you may have and try to come to the best agreement on them if possible...and lets completely ignore derailers like avir
I pray that if a developer ever looks at this thread they stop reading after page 3 or so when the bickering starts and the class discussion stops. Avir is an Inquisitor in the guild rated 7th WW for progression. Love or hate him, he has a greater understanding of the in game content then most people simply by seeing it. I'm the MT templar in Conviction, currently rated 14th so I have seen a lot of content but not as much as 13 other guilds. 1. Defilers ward for so much atm that there is very little room needed for an additional healer in group for DoV content up to Drunder. With minimal healing needed it makes sense to put an Inquisitor in group over a templar for minimal healing. 2. The majority of Main Tanks are now Brawlers, both clerics have always been the least ideal healers for avoidance tank healing due to the fact reactives do not trigger if the tank dodges/blocks. Look in ACT to confirm this fact if you need to. If the main tank isnt getting the majority of their heals from a cleric, it makes sense to put an Inquisitor in group over a templar for dps. 3. Most of the DoV content is highly cure intensive. Inquisitors trivialize solo what a Templar and Shaman have to coordinate to accomplish. Combined with the other issues in DoV, it makes sense to put an Inquisitor in group over a templar for DoV. 4. There are a few mobs in DoV that have DPS checks. This is a no brainer, Inquisitor brings more to the table. With all that said, DoV content requires a 2nd healer in the MT group with the following stipulations. The healer doesn't have to heal very much, the healer will have to cure and having multiple cures is beneficial, doing dps as a healer is preferred.....of course most guilds use an Inquisitor atm, but honestly they could use a fury or warden for the exact same arguement over templar. If brawlers took the damage that plate tanks are taking, templars would still easily have their slot in the MT group, but they don't. If shamans wards were not so insanely beast at the moment, templar would still easily have their slot in the MT group. If SOE gave us a 2nd group cure and massive group dps buffs it would make us preferred over Inqs for the majority of DoV content, or they could just make mobs hit harder. The nerfs to mobs keep coming because apparently even with Inqs in 99% of the MT groups or w.e fictional # we are using, content is still not being cleared at the rate SOE desires for content progression. The concept that MT Templars are still only in the MT group because of "legacy" or w.e is laughable, its because we have shown that we can up our game and perform at the level necessary to progress through content. If any templars in this thread feel that they are beast and are tired of being told to sit or betray, Conviction is currently recruiting 1 templar for the OT slot. If you show up and outperform me, you will be the MT templar.
DistressedEQOA wrote: I used the term simply out of ease I still hold my mt slot on the temp and while I'm not concerned for myself I am for our class gamewide tbh if these issues are not addressed correctly. I would say that certain respones by a person who shall remain nameless on this thread and not a templar has alluded to the fact that temps were sidelined due to being lazy...a description that in no way described the templars I know across the game in particular and templars in general.
I'm reasonably happy with my raid capabilities in drunder, and I'm certain that a MT templar is the way to go for raids, now. But I think that everything up to that point was so reduculously anti-templar, especially all the group instances. And I think that inquisitors had much better offensive and defensive tools for most of the expansion up to this point, especially for instance grouping. And if the whole game is designed around two must-cure ae's landing repeatedly, as it was especially pre-gu61, pre-kael-nerf (and even post-kael-nerf) -- well, then all healers need 2 cures. At least shamen had the dog-dog option.
Move Shield ally, Holy Shield and Steadfast to templar tree and change Glory in to a group buff with something dps to it. Problem solved!!!
Helmarf wrote: As that would require a major rework of the aa specs for both clerics I dont foresee any chance of that happening...in addition these 3 abilities are not make or break for us as the issue is our class defining abilities not our archclass that need to be looked at.
Has anything changed? Do raids want more templars now because of HM Drunder like some hotshots claim? I don't see many raids asking for templars on eq2flames, I see alot asking for inquisies still. And I keep seeing more and more nerfs to Drunder zones, both EM and Challenge. I see more top raids going into HM Drunder. How many are sporting MT templars? Anyone?
Not that I know of. My guild doesn't have a single Templar and as far as I know we aren't looking to add one.
I was told Strike (the top guild on Crushbone) still uses 4 Inquisitors, as do we. Not really sure anyone wants Templars, which is sad.
Onyx/Tyranny/Revelations are top end guilds looking for templars right now (to my knowlege) Strike? From what i heard isn't even really *raiding* atm...So idk if they count.... Mostly why people want a templar is for SoF, since a good portion of the fights are super arcane heavy. SO~ yeah with HM drunder, there are def alot of guilds that are changing their mindsets about having NO templars, to 1 templar on raid for THIS content. Is it balenced between between both clerics? Most def not.... and honestly i wouldn't be surprised if they got a templar app and sat them through everything but HM drunder. Someone should app, let us know how it works out!
23 pages of class issues and possible fixes suggested as well as sizable chunk of discussion pro and con and yet not one Dev chiming in to say the standard " these issues are on our list to be looked at".. prob wouldnt mean much in the way of a meaningful fix but be a start that at least they know there are issues left unaddressed about our class
