State of DoV Raiding Templar

Daalilama@Nagafen wrote:

Just thought i'd butt in with a minor point here - if this was implemented it would have to be via a means such as a red class focus. Would be crazy in pvp if groupwide permanently.

Exagon wrote:

I dont think so the proc rate is worse than treasured reward proc items but either way its something they prob wont do which is why I listed it as a would like...red slot focus be nice but its not like they really went out of their way to design the class focuses to much

bump for lack of interest

So not too much going on in here huh? I was thinking of coming back to play my Templar, but it is looking pretty grim.

Templars still are suffering. Maybe during Fan Faire 2012 they will give us an answer about why they think templars are fine exactly the way they are.
Then again, this issue was brought up last Fan Faire, and the answer then was that templars are the defensive cleric and that inquisitors are the offensive clerics, and that templars would most likely be used while raids are learning a new fight...
Exactly opposite of reality of course. The "offensive" cleric is the one with 2 group cures. Go figure.

I only know one thing. My templar was *needed* (per my former guild) pre-DoV. No, she didn't heal the most (unless the shaman DC'd or died or something), as the shaman got to do most of the healing, but the MT or OT wanted a templar. After a few weeks of DoV raiding, it seemed like my templar just wasn't needed much. I actually got placed in a caster group as a second healer along side a fury and an Inq was put in the MT group. Then...I was asked if I'd like to be an Inq. Um....NO. My main has always been a templar, will always be a templar and will never be anything else, even if that means I don't raid. Guess what. I'm not raiding. Guilds on our server advertising for a cleric specifically ask for Inq. But I won't change my templar. Never.

Gennifer wrote:

Sadly then, you will likely not be raiding until if/when templars get a second cure.
Temps still offer some damage reduction that is still desired by a small niche of players at the top end of the game, but unless your one of a couple dozen templars in that situation, you're likely not desired and will continue to not be desired for that reason alone.

It's just another symptom of the overall swing in damage profile.
You simply cannot go without a Shaman, damage spikes are far too large. Without Wards, tanks just fall over dead. Period.
This was not always the case. Pre-GU13 in fact, Shaman were largely worthless. But even post GU13, for a long while you could raid without a Shaman. The hits were manageable by a Druid / Cleric combination - and back then almost ALL the Clerics were Templars.
As time went on, the hits just kept getting bigger and bigger, to the point where the hit size became unmanageable without Wards, and suddenly you were stuck. This is part of the problem Druids have. Their HoT's are the best heals in the game, hands freakin' down. Unfortunately, the damage comes so fast, so hard, they can't afford to let their HoT's bring the group back up.
The damage profile in raids today ASSUMES that there are going to be Wards in every group. Even for tanks, it's not really about mitigating damage anymore, it's about avoiding it altogether. Sad state of affairs if you ask me.

Nah, Shamans aren't the problem at all. We have our Warden solo heal brawler tank groups because they can just stoneskin/avoid all the damage.

To elaborate on what I wrote months ago, I think Templars have been squeezed from several different angles.
-Tanks have become more and more responsible for their own survivability, which used to be the defensive healers' (especially Templars') domain.
-Wardens are roughly as good as Templars at keeping tanks alive while being much more versatile (second group cure, ect).
-DPS is more important than survivability in DoV content, at least if you aren't on "the cutting edge," making defensive healers less desirable relative to offensive healers.
-Inquisitors are the most versatile/desirable offensive healer, and they don't stack well with Templars.
Those factors combine to squeeze Templars, which still function very well in their intended role, into a tiny niche.

Gennifer wrote:

Thank you for stating the position of many of us. I too used to be the MT healer. I remember being late to a raid (work, family, whatever) and the whole raid was on hold for me to arrive. I felt awful, but once I arrived we could start the named. Today, your exact scenario has happened to me. I no longer raid but make a heck of a heroic group healer. No class should be so necessary that you cannot raid without it. However, no class should be so undesirable that we've become an inconvenience, maybe even a liability, for taking a cleric healer's spot.

I honestly wish people would stop referring to templars as "the defensive cleric" since inquisitors have almost all of the same defensive tools that we do, and in fact have one defensive tool (a second group cure) that is more critical in many raid fights than anything we get out of our unique abilities.
The fact remains that templars have been squeezed out of raids.

PeterJohn wrote:

Yes, since Aeralik changed the Inquisitor mythical to a cure, it has been more accurate to call Templars "tank healers" and Inquisitors "solo healers," but that terminology doesn't really apply to Wardens/Furies or Defilers/Mystics.
Incidentally, the reason Aeralik gave Inquisitors the super cure clicky was because they were squeezed out of raids in RoK. They did not provide a significant offensive advantage at the time, but they were at a very significant disadvantage defensively. Funny how times change.

tuesday night, 12 templars online and 3 in raid/group zones. 21 inquisitors online 21 in raid/group zones. AB server.
SOE knows the issues, just not doing anything about it for some reason.

mykei wrote:

The difference in perceived advantage of a subclass by the population can swing at the most miniscule change. I remember when Berserkers were godly until some of their heals got nerfed. Let's all remember it was clearly The Shadownight Oddessy for several years until recently avoidance tanks are the winsauce.

What SOE needs to do is to:
1. Bring the DPS of a templar who is healing the main tank up to that of the other 6 healers who mostly DPS while passively or minimalistically cast a heal every now and then.
I'd link/couple DAMAGE to their reactive heals like Inquisitors get HEALS from their DAMAGE spells. The value of said 'anti-punishment' could be tuned such that a Templar can be 100% healing with cycling debuffs, maybe 3 offensive spells, autoattack and do the SAME damage as a 98% DPSing Inq who might cast the quick Single Target Reactive or Group Heal for a non-MT group.
2. Give Templars an overpowered and desirable static prevent .
What is the most annoying thing in raiding? Is it co-op strike? Is it spike damage? Is it group recovery from a mid-fight wipe? Is it curse cures? Is it DOT cure trading (no myth cure) with 2nd healer? Is it HM debuff trading?
What would be desirable that would make raiding easier as a player playing a Templar in the MT and OT group than an Inq?
Would co-op strike immunity on the MT be enough?

I'd think a templar that does full tilt DPS like the other classes while full tilt healing that prevents co-op strike on the tank would be Beastlord overpowering.
As an Inq I can do 12K HPS or 70K DPS in EM gear.
If a Templar could do BOTH at the same time, well... who needs that cure while moving?

i would rather not do more DPS but more Heal/support in raids. if i want to do dps i will play my BL. the cleric in eq1 has a lot of good spells to heal. they are healing machines, less than years ago but still offer heal and support. eq2 clerics should share the cure line but after that inq can go dps while temp should have more heal/support spells/aa picks.
tonight same 9 level 90 templars on AB in guild halls, cities, and afk. 26 inquisitors in raid/group zones at prim-time.
Anyone with a brain can see something needs to be done. either drop the templar class or fix it, we have put a lot of time into these charaters but cant raid anymore!

Hardly anyone is working on this game anymore. Nothing will be done with classes for a very very long time, and if they were even considering it I'd think a red name would have stopped by to say something after so many pages. There were a couple class nerfs last year, but that wasn't really to help the Troub or DPS balance (summoner), that was just their way of prepping up to make for their nice new OP as **** Bstlord. A few classes need some love, but I don't believe for a minute it's being worked on or even acknowledged.

P.S. Warlocks got a boost on gu60 or they would have been meaningless too. Guess someone working on EQ2 must play one and made sure they didn't fall into the depths of with the Temp or Zerk.

looks like it's time to betray, i'm all mastered and will need to redo epic. i want to raid and be invited to group but cant wait until SOE does something to make the class work again. it seems that eq2 has too many classes to really support, there are really maybe half that are functional at end-game.
i'm sure the dev guys want to fix everything but are spread thin, it's marketing that will tell them what to fix and/or change.

I was two boxing a Defiler and a Templar, just came back to the game and was doing DoV quests. I did get a couple random tells on the Defiler from people looking for a healer. I got zero tells on the Templar for people looking for a healer. Not that it matters, but both were equally geared.
You know they did a search of all level 90 healers online, neither of my characters was anon. I did not take the group on my Defiler and the Templar was still never asked. Just goes to show that people would rather wait/look for another healer instead of taking a Templar.

mykei wrote:

How much time does it take to give us a second group cure? The devs just don't believe that we are a broken class. Period. This issue has been ignored for at least one year now.