the fix will come with the next expansion and it will finish turning dirges into healers, we will get our summon rez item spell and a variation of sow that will stack with selos so we will be the fasts class in game, but it will require a conc slot to use. lol man do i have faith in SoE devs or what
uh do they not know to look at melodic armor for a prime example of what bard armor is supposed to be ? i mean cmon its simple INT ,STR , and AGI in that order
Not at all to be argumentative... ok yes, well arguing is what I do. INT comprises a power stat and about ~25% of our total damage output, except when forced to range fight, then it's closer to 50%, or more if you buy pansy arrows. If you pvp, you're probably forced to range fight. STR affects about ~75% of our damage output. AGI is power an ability to avoid being hit. With taunts being what they are right now (granted, being fixed soon) I'm glad we have this as a primary stat. Since INT affects our power pool, I would argue it might EQUAL strength in importance. AGI is of course important as well, as that determines a large part of our longevity, but it's largely good at what its at already. But I would definitely not say INT, STR, and AGI *in that order*. And I definitely would not rule out STA and WIS, as both affect survivability for the all encompassing AE. =(
apperantly you dramticaly misunderstand your class then myfriend as most of our attacks are SPELLS and int dramaticaly increases our SPELL DAMAGE if you are neglecting your int then you sir realy need to reconsider
Luda's. Tarven's. Banshee. Jarol's. Anything else? That's the sum of our INT affected abilities. Everything else + autoattack (which alone comprises 30% of our output) is STR based.
/off topic My 2 cents. We do in fact use int, not for all of our abilities but for a significant amount of them. We, being dirges are almost always placed in a group in which other classes have the ability to help buff our str/agil to almost the max practical level. Diminishing returns places that amount around 500 imo b/c the returns are pretty much crap after that. Int on the other hand is rarely ever near max practical level. On a good day I'm in the mid 200s (with a necro in my group), solo I think I'm at 134 or so in full fabled. I would like to be in the 400 range buffed, maybe 250ish solo. I'm not completely sure how it works but I figure an increase in int from say 250 to 400 would be more significant to us than an increase in str from 500 to 600. In a raid we have a duty to stay alive so our healers and tank continue to see benefits from our buffs and the mob is consistently debuffed. Often that means we are fighting from distance. Int is huge for us b/c the only ranged attack we have is auto attack.
ok chief well im not 100% about what all dirge attacks are but there pnot much different than a troubs and theres a lot more than 4 inclusing spells dots and debuffs int plays as big a roll if not more so than str and if ur standing there just slashing away like ur an assasin or a swashy or something then you realy need to learn what a bard is all about because well never compare on auto attacks our best fighting is done while kiting my friend
Agreed off topic. And agreed INT is important. The numbers you gave would be be more important even on a linear scale, much less a diminishing returns curve. =) The difference is also not as much as you think, since autoattack from a good bow with good arrows does about as much damage as all of our ranged songs (given a 20 second cycle time) combined. (Also assuming non-grouped. If grouped, Banshee will skew those numbers a bit). I disagree that it's AS important, and I still get *measurable gains* from 500 to 600 and 600 to 700... and I almost never hit 700. Check your arts though if you want to see raw damage difference, the percentage should scale to autoattack too, though you can check that with /weaponstat as well. I did forget a couple of our INT affected arts though: Wail of the Dead (lifetap), and Lanet's. Altogether though, they still don't add up, and INT based arts are more power intensive and have a higher re-use time than the bulk of our combat arts damage. Their numbers are pretty spectacular looking though (well, for us). Better single numbers than any thing we get from strength, except mastery strikes. I was only countering that INT is not by any means MORE important than strength. And maybe a little hot under the collar at the implication that I don't know my class very well. =( EDIT: Since I was writing while the above was posted: INT doesn't affect our debuffs. And while we share a lot of similarities, we are massively different from Troubadors. We do not get a power-over-time DoT like they do, and we don't get a 5 second refreshing nuke like they do, which start to more heavily skew them towards INT. Message Edited by Godstalk on 12-15-2006 05:04 PM Message Edited by Godstalk on 12-15-2006 05:06 PM
Druids can run faster with AA's than bards with selo's and jboots! WHY?, Bards were class defining and only the top horse in eq1 could move as fast once it got up to speed. Maybe the Devs now play the druid class? I hope they don't say balancing, cause when they really balance, there will be only one class, one race, one city etc. Maybe one player too!
the dot was what i was refering to with the damage debuff coment portion and im not saying nessisarily that int and str shouldnt be = or nearly so because htey should but mostly that agi should be significantly 3rd by comparison to str and int should generaly be equal or nearly so what i hate is all the dirges and troubs that trash bards left and right and yet there totaly speced out like an assasin all srt and agi and no int a good bard balances the 2 and gets them both as high as possible while still gettign agi , sta , and wis
i love you all, *smile* now lets stay friends..i must permit i most times looked for agi and int then sta and wis. But thats just me and im from a pvp server where wis and sta adds to surviving ^^ Agi for my powerpool as i used to burn through my power 1 of me group in the ol days..yes with drinks and totems even, but it got better and i still try to learn my class better *wiiiiiiiiink*from the lazy dirge
I guess the only reason that I make int a priority is b/c all my other stats are at least 200 above int. In order to get a decent amount of int I'd have to wear cloth. A way around this would be to allow CoB proc off of ranged and melee attacks.
Druids can run faster with AA's than bards with selo's and jboots! - Druid T7 raid (Animist) boots also add 10% to their speed. Fairly rare drop so not a big issue, but saves the change to and from J-boots.
/offtopic also I basically strive to keep my Int and Str with in 70 of each other with my self buff up and my standard jewelry on. Those that know me know I can shift the balance between those by a lot due to the fact i canr so much jewelry around. If you asked me which stat I placed the most importance on for my armor I would say Int. Not because Int is better than Str, but because it is so hard to get armor that raises my Int without destroying my Str and Agi. I want more Int onmy armor, because when I have to remove my self buff, I switch out of my str and str/int(Yes thess exist their were a few pieces in Shin and KoS and a whole bunch in EoF) jewelry and put in the Int and high Agi jewlry just to get my power up were it was. Now admitedly, since the Fury has started hanging in my group more often than not I've not been worrying about Int nearly as much. *huggles Fury Int/power buff* But, if you asked me what I would want on armor I would still say more Int. Basically the fact that a lot of bards don't wear shaman gear but wear scout gear and use caster jewelry to make up thier Int combined with the drastic lose in Int for most bards when they don't have the self buff up, creates a knee jerk reaction to want more Int. So naturally when you ask people how they prioritize the stats they'll go Int first since that is what they are always scramling for. Str and Agi are so easy to come by that they get over shadowed by the deficit of Int. So really there are two different questions, Which are the most important stats for a bard and Which are the stats you look for most in acquiring gear. Side, side note: Whether or not you put Int or Str higher on your over all goal is basically a matter of playstyle and perception. Personally I try to balance the two, but Id rather have my Int lower than my Str than my Str lower than my Int. So, I guess I was wrong earlier in the other thread when I said I thought the importance of stats where Int/str, agi then Sta or Wis. That's the order of importance of what I would want to see more of onmy gear. In reality, the way I balance my Stats its Str/Int, Agi then Wis or Sta. I got to thank this discussion for opening my eyes to the distinction between the two.
/offtopic /shamelessselfpromotion Quoting from the Dirge FAQ: Q. What stats are important for dirges? A. Bloody near everything. Agility improves power pool and avoidance, strength improves autoattack and combat art damage, intelligence improves power pool and spell damage and keeps you from doing stupid things, stamina improves survivability and the chance of getting a second date, and wisdom improves resistances and keeps you from doing really stupid things, including some of those second dates. In choosing equipment, people have different approaches. Scout-oriented gear tends to be weighted toward agi, str, and sta, so it can be hard to get good int gear – which many dirges value highly. It also depends on what you do; the best gear for solo isn’t necessarily the best gear for raids. Fair summary? Whysp
/continueing the off topic Heh, well yes, and there have been numerous threads that crope up repeatably on the topic. But, and correct me if I'm wrong Godstalk, what Ithink Godstalk was getting at is with the devs looking at bards and possibly the class armor too, and majority saying that Int is the stat they want to see the most, there is definately a concern tht they might get the wrong impression and think str and agi aren't just as important, if not more so to some.
It was actually the fact that a dev designing armor he thought would be bard coveted was seriously baffled that we'd want INT on it at all that erally worries me. (Moreso because they intend to make sure the class is where -they- want it to be.)
i just wish it was like pre LU 13 where pretty much all our abity was based of agi would make life alot simpler lol i dont really want that but till hehe
its not that we dont want str and agi its that thearmor there spiting out is all str and agi and no int if they would follow for the class armor of bards the same pattern they have for melodic jsut with better stats/mit/resists it would be perfect
