Milyex Vioren Feedback

killed it today ...It does take some coordination and dps....but is doable.....

I will say it will probably be little hard for those just entering VP

Gaige will happily vouch for us not being an uber guild either

Charayne@Kithicor wrote:

Hmm..remove every piece of loot you are wearing that you got past wing 2 in VP including that trak loot and make sure the rest of your raid does too...then try it again plz. I notice the folks saying this encounter is right in line have been farming *all* of VP and possibly Trak as well for how many months??

While it may be theoretically possible for a guild that just beat Nexona/Druuhsk and encountered Milyex to eventually beat him, I wouldn't want to put money on them doing it. Most likely, they'd need to gear up on Maestro and Byzola before doing so, while lacking mythicals from the third wing like, say, illusionist or guardian. The mob just breaks progression, and people who don't see that are either trolling or hopelessly obtuse.

Arieva@Oasis wrote:

I got 2 pieces on youd need to kill mylex to get to.....no byzola or meastro gear and im a weaksauce summoner

anyway...was just stating he is killable and we are in no way an avatar killing guild.....and I do agree...he would be a hard fight for those just entering VP and is way out of line with everything else.

tbh i cant understand the reasoning behind the change this close to exp coming out.

It's a gearcheck/raid makeup check fight. Needs relatively little coordination. It could be made into a much more interesting fight that does need coordination though. Say... all the generators spawn every 5% of his health, for each generator one person on raid gets an independant emote/trigger letting them and only them disable the specific generator in 10 seconds or powers up milyex based on which one failed. That would be much more interesting, have no dps requirement, and be a heck of a lot harder than this current incarnation in terms of coordination and ability, for example.

The Problem i have with this encounter is, that it is rather tuned for fully mythical, Avatar - Tangrine , Maestro, Byzola Geared Raidforces. But those Raidforces who are just nowVP, dont have it, maybe didnt even the right raid set-up. I'm for difficult raidmobs, dont get me wrong, but devs should considerate those smaller Raidforces.

Gaige wrote:

Comparisons of VP to Shard of Hate and Protector's Realm....

I loled.

Noob1974 wrote:

Then you would have all of the "hardcore" raid guilds b!tching. That whole 2% of the EQ2 population who get super mad when they think they will have some competition on loot or avatar pulls. I have NEVER seen more whiners in my life.....not even my 5 year old son whines as much as some of these folks in HC guild's that think they are the most uber people on the planet. I am in a "HC" guild and could care less about what they do to mobs to make them easier or harder. Make them easier, people b!tch...make them harder, people b!tch. It is an endless circle.

My problem with the design of this encounter is that it's another one of those fights that hinges entirely on one factor, in this case, killing the generators quickly enough, and there is no margin for error at all. These fights are not challenges, but simply excercises in frustration, and really make the game less enjoyable. Too many raid encounters seem built around gimmicks like this, and as a result, raid forces are designed around how best to beat the gimmick of the day, and this excludes certain classes and certain builds. Rather than promoting creative thinking and good strategy, these encounters force guilds to conform to a single correct strategy with no room for deviation and no room for error. This sort of encounter is designed for a bot group, not human players.

LOL well suppose they could borrow an old DoF trick have the old encounter in the standard instance and the new model in the "hard instance" and throw in some beefier gear for those who want to play hard. (if they must link the timers together so folks don't go double dipping loot)
But seriously Milyex is outta place in that wing now (well he was before in the opposite sense though) I do think a split in the middle would be the course to go though. up the gen time another 2 secs or so and it should be decent.

IMO it is too late to be making changes in VP like this. These changes should have been done before the expansion released or when they made the changes to dru and nex.
All it does is make the lower end guilds that have worked thier arshs off learning nex and dru get roadblocked AGAIN a couple mobs later while all the guilds that have been farming VP for close to a year continue on since they are already mythicaled and geared out the arsh.
SoE, don't you think you made enough guilds quit roadblocking them at dru and nex? How many do you think are going to stay around if they are blocked at milyex?

Are you Devs getting kick backs from the Mythical selling guilds for all the business you send their way?

Can we get everyones final Mythical Kill change to Druushk please...

Or do you have to be the beloved class of the lead Dev for that privelage.

Is this a joke? We finally managed to get Nexona down and now this.
The cheer and joy turned into another frustrating fight no one before us had to go through.
Been told he needed a change from a boring ranged 20min fight but this?
Wanna keep him like this remove him from the mythical updates and add Brigand to a mob in wing 3, make him a mob in VP not needed to kill to get to next wing and for the fun of it add some hardcore loot to his table and the hc-guilds will be happy too.

Oh and do it asap, we have one more day in VP before timer runs out :O
//Keys, a bit frustrated
ps I'll shoot a dev a message if it's not done in time so we can be teleported to next wing, Im sure our brigand will be ok with that.

Dasein wrote:

The generators are a "failure condition" which are very prevelant in raids.

Also, lots of raidforces comprised of human players have beaten the new Milyex, including a PUR of copied players on Test.

Gaige wrote:

Aye, but that PUR was comprised of alot of top geared players from the top end guilds.
I haven't fought the new mob and probally wont since I really don't have time to raid anymore but it is kinda a slap in the face for the guilds that stuck around and JUST killed nex and dru to be faced with a new roadblock that nobody else had to face to get mythicals.
Granted that floor 2 and 3 should have been revamped to something more of a challenge but to do it now is just plain stupid.

Apparently there were 2 versions out there and being 'tested', one easier to beat than the other.

The one I tried on AB over the weekend was annoying, espically a non-dragon (no pattern dropping) mob.

Wing beat was coming every 14s, so even at the 75k dps we were doing there is virtually no way to do the 3 generators. One was easy, 2 could be ok with cordination and concentration, 3 is just silly for the 14 seconds allowed.

Either that timer has to be increased to like 30, or the generator HP has to be 1/2 at 2 of them, and 1/3 at three of them (instead of full health each time)

Gaige wrote:

Most raids have failure conditions that do not require such precise timing and coordination as Milyex, and while I do not doubt some guilds have killed him, I highly doubt most will be able to in the near future in his current state. More than that, is it good encounter to designt o create such a binary failure condition? Most raid encounters have more of an analog failure condition, where a few mistakes can be recovered from, but more mistakes make the fight progressively harder until it is impossible. This with binary fail conditions tend to make them glaringly obvious and relatively easy to counter - clicking a statue, for example, or curing an effect. That this raid has a binary fail condition which requires nearly the entire raid to be capable of doing massive spike DPS within a very tight window is indicative of non-human-oriented design. That is, it was designed around theoretical max player capabilities on paper, and not on actual player performance in a real game environment. This is bad design, and you seem to be tripping over yourself to defend it. Why not demand better of SOE?

Like to offer some constructive feedback on this mob for the developers.
As my guild encountered him the other night, I think you may have tweaked him a little to far.
I don't think anyone can argue that before this change the fight was so simple and boring that the only need was high enough DPS to burn through the generators to get enough down that your DPS could widdle away at his health.
The new version is more tactical and more enjoyable, but also perhaps a little to steep in difficulty for proper balance of the given wing.
A couple suggestions on how to make this a little better and maintain the strategy you seem to be going for.
1. Reduce the generators health each time they increase their spawn rate. 1x 100% normal, 2x 65% normal, 3x 50% normal. This will still provide a progression of difficulty in the clearing of the generators, but it will be a little more reasonable.
2. Slightly increase the spawn timers. Currently I think they are around 14-18s, change them to 25s, or maybe 30s.
I am basing these suggestions on my assumption of your intention with this change. I am assuming that you wanted to change this mob to make him more challenging and require a little more thought. The suggested changes would do this, but at the same time prevent a change that would cause this to become arguably the 3rd hardest fight in the raid.
Now if your intention is to create another "Mythical gate keeper" mob after the beats known as Nexona and Druushk, you may have done just that. However I would caution you that in doing so you are really going to anger a lot of people outside of the most uber of raid guilds in the game.
As it stands now Nexona and Druushk are VERY challenging mobs to learn and for almost a year have been the gate keepers to people attaining mythical updates. All guilds before now knew that if they where able to topple these two dragons they had a legitimate shot at clearing the rest of the zone and in turn gaining mythicals to make the job a little easier next go around. To insert a "new" gatekeeper at this point is a very poor decision and will only hurt those guilds that have not been fortunate enough to get through this zone quick enough to avoid the changes.
As developers you need to ask yourselves what you hope to accomplish with this change and really consider the ripples it will create. The majority of your player base have never even sniffed the front door to VP, a smaller percentage have made it past Nex and Druushk, and an even smaller have cleared the zone. The place is hard enough as it is, do you really want to slap the faces of the larger percentage of your player base this close to you know what coming out?
Up to you to decide. I know my guild can likely over come this mob with some practice, but we also have all our mythicals already and are working on Trak and beyond.
One last thing; If you need some ideas on how to change the VP mobs after the gatekeppers to make the mobs more enjoyable but not necessarily a lot more difficult, send me an email.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks!

I don't think I'd consider the generators a "fail condition", as missing a few doesn't wipe the raid. Tis more of a "ceiling" effect--if your raid doesn't have the dps or strategy to kill them in time, then the encounter is very difficult to complete.

However, the fight was definitely intended to be fun so I'm going to make a few tweaks to ease up the difficulty a bit. I'm raising the time per generator from 20s to 26s, and changing their buffs to make them resist attacks less frequently. Hopefully this will help make the fight a bit less frustrating for everyone as it requires a "dps group" to maintain less than 8000dps over those 26s in order to kill the generator in time.

And if you don't defeat the encounter the first night, don't fret! The fight is constructed such that an excellent strategy can make the DPS requirements much less harsh. Take your time, and have fun!

timetravelling wrote:

I'd definitely consider the generators a fail condition. Why?

More than likely, if you get a wing beat due to not getting a generator down in time (i.e. low DPS)

1) People get tossed way up in the air, reducing DPS even further.
2) People probably will get kicked into the lava and will basically be out of the fight until victory/defeat.
3) You end up losing precious time, meanwhile generators are still spawning.
4) Oh, and Milyex will heal about 20% each wing beat.

In another words, if you get a wingbeat, your chances of recovery are reduced greatly. Maybe not a fail condition like a missed click on a Druushk statue, but pretty darn close.

I do think your suggestions will help though, thanks!