Loot Tables - COE:Advanced Solo zones

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This point from your post is important, as it shows your entire philosophy on this subject. It is very short and very clear in expressing a particular viewpoint.
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Ok, I put that in a quote only to present it the same way. That shows my (very different) philosophy.

Guess what? We are both entitled to hold the views we do, and it makes neither of us stupid or lack "lucidity". We just want opposite things. This is not a crime. It is not even unusual, it is just normal life.

However, a little lesson in history is relevant here. Having played this franchise for 13 years now, without any breaks, I can tell you most assuredly that neither this game nor its predecessor is designed in the way you prefer, and never at any point has it been that way. This game has always had those items that the developers of the time deemed suitable for trading, and those other items that they deemed should be earnt by killing mobs yourself.

I would like EQII to continue as the franchise always has. Admittedly, there has been a lack of decent tradeable items for the last few expansions, and the HEIRLOOM/NO-TRADE tags have gotten used a little more than a good economy really requires. Once that is addressed, by making a range of better items tradeable, the actual HEIRLOOM and even some pure NO TRADE tags could be enforced by making characters present for the kill.

Now all that history does not mean the game cannot be changed to suit you (and others with your mentality). But doing so would risk upsetting a lot of other players.

I see this game is character-based, and that each character should earn it's greatest achievements itself through active gameplay, not sit on a marketplace or broker buying the very best items, and certainly not earning that coin by farming banally trivial content or (even worse) opening their real life wallets and paying for them in some way. So I would have some items that were enforced NO TRADE (not even HEIRLOOM), some that were enforced HEIRLOOM, and many that are just tradeable for a good economy.

If I were the game designer, I would just go ahead and do exactly this, straight away, and override the opposition from the types of players who want it changed otherwise. Call it "pinning ones colours to the mast" and setting out a philosophy, and then building to that philosophy.

Hence my lack of sympathy for platfarmers, goldsellers, SLR farmers, and the like. I see them as a cancer to games like this.

You are not forced to agree with anything I say, nor are you required to like my post or the way I say what I say. However, you are at least expected to accept that others will not all agree with you.
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That would mean that you should be in agreeance that solo zones should not be dropping raid loot, of course I doubt that fits your agenda in wanting it to continue as it always has you being a 13 year vet and all.

So what then - in your opinion - separates an item that a player needs to "earn" from an item that they can "farm trivial content for and buy"? Your "philosophy" still allows for both, so you just want to be the one that makes the decisions?

Also, I hope you realize - since you seem to be incapable from separating SLR & trade from plat-selling - that if all items (for example) were to be no-trade and only obtainable by the character, this would in no way curb plat-selling or "pay to win". People would just move away from selling loot rights and go back to what was the norm prior to the popularization of SLR - that is selling fully geared characters for plat or out of game cash. So in your "character-based" setup, you'd have characters that have earned all their stuff, you'd now just have players that never "earned" their characters, which in my opinion is even worse.

At least now, players have the option to obtain amazing things (that they aren't abel to "earn" themselves) through fully IN-GAME means, such as farming plat or crafting or doing other IN-GAME activities. By taking this option away, you actually encourage people to use out-of-game means to obtain said items.

SLR has been widely used since Kunark for selling Epic Weapon Mythical updates. That was 2008. By your comment, EQ2 should be dead by now.

People aren't running group zones in Chains of Eternity because they are all the same difficulty and all drop the same loot. Look at Kunark, look at TSO, look at SF, look at DoV. Players liked having a progression of easy zones and hard zones. I remember there was a sense of accomplishment to running Unrest, Guk, Runnyeye 2, Veksar, the Palace of Ferzul, etc.. Now that all the group zones in EQ2 are roughly the same difficulty and people can get similar loot by running solo zones, guess what people are doing?

A group wants me to heal and a mount or piece of gear drops that an alt of mine would like? I pay!
I do not mind buying the loot rights for my own alt, I never need something I don't intend to use on the character that is currently in the zone.
Here is another instance that that had me "buying" a piece of gear for myself:
We have yet to see the leather healer shoulders drop in raid!
Sure every alt brawler in the guild as well as every chain and plate healer and alt healer, have shoulders, but not the leather healers.
So one day I see another raid SLR to the leather healer shoulders, you bet I was all over that and made sure I got them!
It wasn't that I couldn't obtain them myself by not being 'qualified' to raid for them, it was to date of this post, we have NOT seen them drop!
Blame SoE's loot code! I really miss the "Patterns" of previous tiers!

I like the changes. To each their own. I understand some people liked the research reductions and the temp adorns, thats cool, but for me those are as junkie as the food or the trade skill recipes that i already have scribed. Besides the ledgendary/fable boxes that drop now instead of the mystery boxes (which i like more then the mystery boxes), the fact i have a chance to either get the gear to a buddy who can actually use the stuff or sell it so i can buy something else in the future is a change i like.

With all the SLR, and other options for getting raid gear without raiding, i dont see the solo zones dropping that low end raid gear being a problem. If this was 5 years ago my opinion would be different but alternate gear paths is the direction they took their game.

The argument people will all stop doing raid/group content because you can sell from solo zones i dont agree with. Its a playstyle difference, people play for rewards, what equates to a reward depends on the person. some like shiny armor some like filling up useless guild achievement rows. if guy A. like grouping with his buddies guy A. is gonna run zones that allow multiple people regardless of the other place giving a higher chance of him getting loot. If guy B. is a solo'er and hates people, that guy is gonna run solo zones all day reguardless if he has higher chance at loot in a group zone. If guy C. is all about farming and loot gathering and plat building that guy is always gonna go for the best bang for the buck zone. They flock to their play style. Not everyone flocks to the loot pinata like some of us.

Yes & no. If you duo this zone, there will be 2 gear items dropped guaranteed. That's probably what I was averaging under the old system (one item / char) when you took into account the crap drops. So no real changes there. Or you can molo it and get the guaranteed 2 all on one account. That's a vast improvement over the old system (2 items / 1 char). So in terms of number of items, molo play is superior to grouping with someone.

Likewise, there is no "great increase" in useful loot. It's a 50/50 chance at something you can equip. If you run the zone duo (tank & healer), then the smart loot is almost the same table as before. A handful of items will get dropped (pure mage or pure scout) if it's a "smart loot item". So I'm not seeing a big change here when duo'n. Two items. On average, one will be smart loot. 50/50 whether it's for your class or not. Who knows what the other non-smart item will be. I'm thinking we'll still have the same number of runs where we end up with nothing.

Now if you run the zone molo, then the the smart table is restricted to that one char. Winner winner, chicken dinner. Once again, the system favors molo over duo. ...not sure that sits well with me. Generally I like systems that favor actual people playing together over solo. And by keeping it 2 chests / person, the system would encourage duo play. I honestly don't think it would be that unbalanced.

First three AS runs today since change (been focusing on Obols, and access quest), 3 zones on my paladin, 7 items all WIS/STA. Anti-smart loot still firmly in place it appears.

This sytem would encourage duo play over grouping. Heroic zones don't have 6 chests, x2 zones dont have 12 chests x4 zones don't have 24 chests.
The amount of time it takes to run these zones is negligible, the challenge is little to non-existant and they can be reset in 90 min (maybe less not sure on that).
If the zones are dropping the loot for 2 players when you use a merc then that needs to be fixed ASAP, there is no way that was intended.
The way it is now one ALWAYS comes out with something, transmutables, or vendor loot if by their own choice do not have a transmuter.
It is without a doubt better if you and your friends/guildies use the mechanics of the loot system to your advantage, if you get an awesome drop they could use then get them in there and let them loot it, they can do the same for you. There is no other zones that can be run in this game that rward the amount of loot you get out of here per person over time and challenge involved. None at all.

So were you using a healer merc? It isn't smart loot meaning 100% of the time you will get something you can use, it is 50% and 3 runs is far too small a sample size to make any claim that it isn't working.
According to Grumble the loot is bugged and counting the merc as a real player and awarding extra loot if you have a merc in there.
So if you were using a healer merc then the smart loot may have been working every time and giving your merc some gear, which of course you can't use for him. This is bugged and needs to be fixed mercs should not count as a second player.

Well you are a Paladin... maybe the code wasn't updated Wisdom used to be a very good stat for Paladins.

We're miscommunicating. I have no idea if it's bugged and look at the merc on smart loot. I think it's looking at whether it can be equipped and there are a lot of items that just don't make sense to be used on certain classes.

My point is that the new system doesn't seem to be all that better than the old in a duo environment (putting the stones aside for a moment). I seem to be getting the same number of useable items on either char, due to the number of chests being cut by half. So ignoring any bugs on the smart table, if the intent was to improve the drops you get in AS runs, that's not happening. Yes, you are doubling my chances of an item on my table and then subsequently halving the number of items dropped. No gain in duo play.

If you are needing something on one of your chars, you are hands down better off molo'n than duo'n. All 2 drops are exclusively yours. If there's a smart drop, it's guaranteed to be on your table, not someone else's. Maybe they intend these zones to be molo'd. Dunno.

Correct.

For smart loot to really work well, the items would have to have their Classes changed to just Scouts, Mages, Fighters, and Priests, as well as those few Fighter/Scout and Mage/Priest items.

Just make everything fully tradable already... jeeze...

Kinda like the pattern system they did in SF which really only had a flaw of only having 1 Scout set when all other classes had 2 sets?

They can weight items in a treasure chest to compensate for this. In past years, Fighter sets were weighted down compared to DPS and healers of which there are a lot more in the typical raid.

6 runs (with a healer merc), 1 STR, 13 WIS Items. All were 'equippable' and maybe that is all Smart Loot looks at, in which case it is 'anti-smart loot'. I agree the sample size is too small.

If I could like this 1 Million times I would.

heh yeah, the lvl 90+ are of the broker is dead. only thing on there is terrible HC and MC gear.

Not sure why with 90+ stuff SoE went so crazy with the heirloom tag.

I have tried with a merc, solo and duo with another player in the CoE advanced solo:

The merc didn't award me anything more, I got 2 legendary items from ST advanced solo, same as before the change.
I solo'd WE HM and got an exquisite chest which contained 1 fabled mage boots (I SLR's them for 100pp) and 2 legendary items.
I duo'd WE HM and we got an ornate chest with 5 pcs of legendary, so 1 less than before? I took 2 items and my groupmate took 3.
btw when I used the merc, it was Kenny and I am a healer.
Of the 2 fabled I got this week in advanced solo, 1 was mage, the other brawler!
so its not-so-smart loot