So... Monks.

2HANDER ftw like stated, your other mistake is opening with ironfist, its a fairy tale to start with that because of bp blah blah blah....and a waste of a disc you can use during a long sustained. heel is best with bp not iron, court is out on some who open speed or heel but def not Iron. hotkeys also? if your key lags during the depress and have to hit again etc you wasted a burn thats just my 2cp but something still off.

I think that was just proving that like they said it is easier to get a lot more out of a Berserker when you don't know how to play either

And their class being more streamlined or obvious or whatever instead of clunky pushing a lot of buttons to not do much

Ok my spam hotkey looks like this, order of abilities is EyE Gouge, Torrent of fists, Vigorous shuriken, Doomwalkers Synergy, Flying Kick, Tiger Claw, Stunning Kick, Phantom Pummeling (all rk2) I spam that as much as I can (this is a 3 box so wont be 100% uptime on everything as monks abilities recycle so quickly) Then I keep up Zan Fi, Eye of the storm, and two fingers and also Curse of three fingers as they refresh. I try to use Dicho as it repops as well as well crane stance and Five point, but I save my other discs for burning (lol) named.
The AA/dics abilities for I click manually too no macro to activate burns
Can you share what kind of sustained numbers I should be getting in a group setting over a night with a bard for ADPS and burn numbers too, bearing in mind my 3 box is a SK, Bard, Monk/Zerker/Wizard as third slot and the dps (that's my options for the third slot, I mostly pick the zerker as it's easy and owns ;-)

Unless you're camping a named that you cannot absolutely kill without burning it down fast, dps is dps. Use what you have whenever you can. Don't hold back in case something might happen. So what if one named fight takes a bit longer, in the long run, your average sustained will be higher and you'll kill more stuff/get more exp/aa.

Well it doesn't really matter normally dps is enough to clear the Phs and spawns around a named camp in say Chardok and leave a minute to grab a drink surf the web before next round respawns so I would rather save my burn and kill the named faster, If wasn't boxing I might use more discs on trash stuff, but still kinda sucks when the named spawns and the group yells BURN and you cant do anything as all your discs are on cooldown and your burn looks like a joke

Heel master burn unless you have a chance to ae adds to pad parses =P just imho

The thing about monks is there's a ton of diff ways to Disc(press a million buttons a million different ways and still get laughed at by everyone else /feelsbadman). Below ill give you 3 examples of the ways to disc. The difference between Heel and Speedfocus being first comes down to if you have bard/BST. if you dont have bard/bst, then speedfocus first will be better(usually in solo/molo situations or AE events). Most raid events dont last long enough to disc multiple times. so you will have awkward moments in your disc rotations.

Disc Pairing below, Order of each of the following examples changes depending on event/situation

Spacing your disc out over long events/Multiple phase events:
1.Eye of the Storm + Glyph
2.Dicho + 1st + Infusion + BP + Drunken Monkey Style + Heel (try use when and if you have Scarlet Cheetah Fang on you, casted by rangers)
3.Zan Fi + Dragons balance + Speedfocus + Destructive Force (focused) + 7th vet if you have it
4.Ironfist + (try time it when Crane + Five Point refresh is close) (time it with bestial alignment, BST buff)
5.Terrorpalm (the finisher! garbage throw what ever refreshed in with it if the event is about to end)
5a. if the event is not over Refreshes should be happening, sometimes events will run long enough that refreshes will happen and Infusion + 1st + Dicho + Zan fi will repop, you will have to hold these for about 2mins until Speedfocus refreshes
6. Earthforce just keep this up inbetween everything or where suitable.

OMFGWTFBBQ Burn anything thats gonna die in 40-100 seconds:
1. All adps clicked + Ironfist + Crane + Five Point palm, Click Ironfist off and Click Heel
2. once heel is down use Speedfocus
3. once speedfocus is down, throw in Terrorpalm/eyeofthestorm to finish if mobs still alive

Disc Option 3, where applicable:
1.Glyph + adps clicked(Dragons balance, 1st, infusion, zan fi, dicho, destructive, BP) + Heel + Crane + FPP
2.immediatly continue into speedfocus(can toss in 7th vet if got it) once heel down
3.Bestial alignment(BST buff) should be on at this point throw in Ironfist full duration.
4.Eye of the Storm/Terrorpalm which ever you prefer
5.Terrorpalm/Eye of the storm which ever you prefer
6.Earthforce
7.That awkward moment when dicho, Zanfi, 1st, Infusion are back up but nothing else is
8. push all the things from #7 just cuz impatiant and the Mage is eyeballing your spot in the top 5/10
9. cry a little

This made me lol thank you for that

Monk tears really do make the best lube, friend. Turn that frown upside down!

OMFGWTFBBQ Burn anything thats gonna die in 40-100 seconds:
1. All adps clicked + Ironfist + Crane + Five Point palm, Click Ironfist off and Click Heel
2. once heel is down use Speedfocus
3. once speedfocus is down, throw in Terrorpalm/eyeofthestorm to finish if mobs still alive

Is pretty much what I use on my burn as I save most of it for named when in my box group, though I run Ironfist until synergy is about to refresh then I click it off for Heel.

you said you boxed? if your tabbed off the monk to play another toon you will drop in dps because your not keeping your kick spam on Cool Down. if thats the case just swap heel with speedfocus that way you are at least max HHE while you are tabbed over to one of your other toons.

I'm sure there is a thread somewhere where everyone can compare their burn orders. This thread is about the state of the monk class, not learning what to press when.

Even if you have found the absolute best combination of adps and burns and activated abilites, you'll still get outparsed by every other pure melee (yes monks are pure melee along with warriors (and yes, warriors can do HUGE damage if played correctly with the right support for dps...I've seen it first hand), berserkers and rogues) and several of the hybrids (beastlords and rangers, I'm looking at you). The best melee dps group at the moment is shaman, bard, beastlord, ranger, berserker, rogue. Every one of those classes offer something to the group so why would you roll a monk that does sub-par dps with nothing to compensate for it. The only thing we offer is survivability. So great, I take a little load off the shaman and he only has to heal me half the times he heals the rest of the group (or 100 times less than he heals the berserker).

Whoever said the monk community can't get anything done because all we do is butt heads with each other is completely right, and it's been that way for quite some time.

I very rarely post here, but I felt like I should chime in as someone who has mained a monk for 18 years. The class needs something, but every option I'm sure is limited. If they increase our sustained, there will be some of us that can turn that into massive amounts of dps and the ones that can't will complain that our burns need boosts. If they increase our burns, our sustained will skyrocket and more and more people will call for nerfs to monks or boosts to their classes. It's a paradox and I don't think it will be fixed anytime soon.

I won't even go into the debate of melee vs caster dps. Now, we have to worry about some of the priests out damaging us. It's a sad state.

omg... savager posted...... the sky is falling

Solid post Savager. Echos true and why I havent dusted off my monk alt in many years!

@Savager, don't look at me it was the other guy. I agree that monks need some help in the dps department.

/hugs

I'm going to chime in on this one. Love me, hate me, make fun of me, I was always "butting heads" in the past with raiding monks regarding the class and hopefully helping some along the way. I know before I retired I was helping a lot more than hurting.

But with the way everything is right now for the monk class, this is pitiful. I consider myself a good monk. I've been beat by others on parses but I was a solid player that could get top 10. I tried playing the monk class in EoK beta and nothing changed. Like Dropfast stated, they upgraded our pet disc. I haven't used that since zalikors came out. We have no real improvements outside of the standard weapon, augs, cleave, boot ac.

I retired from the game solely because I saw enough. The class is not fun. It was a challenge to molo even raid geared. It was possible, but in previous expansions killing multiple mobs was no problem. The versatility of defensives and self heals allowed being able to eat hits from the 6 mobs, but still kill them. Set us apart from rogue/zerker. But now, there's not even that separation. Zerker can melt the mobs pretty much non stop with no need for defensives. This isn't a cry for nerf zerkers, they are supposed to do that. But clearly since we have no defensive separation, give us offensive help so we can compete again. We are a DPS class as very well stated by others in here.

I may not be a 18 year tenure monk main, but I played a monk for 9 years and met a lot of players that I respected and I thought of them respecting me. Not because we're friends, but because of what we could do with our class.

Luckily on TLP monks are god tier atleast for the first few expansions, monks really need to live on TLP to have a functioning class though? Seems like a problem for daybreak honestly

Keep in mind Monks are one of the best classes to have around in the group game. It's raiding they suffer just because their role on Raids is damage and they don't do it as well as they should.

I don't come to the boards much anymore because I'm tired of peeing into the wind but I'll toss in my 2c in case a dev is actually reading:

I think the simplest way to adjust monks back into line is to simply raise our crit rate. That's the biggest discrepancy we have. We live at about 30% crit rate. Ruchu is super important to us because our crit rate is so horrible. Get our crit rate back up to where other pure melee have it. Make that inherent and built in (no disc needed) Then maybe change one of our discs (eye of the storm?) to further increase the crit rate like other melee's can.

IMO that fixes 90% of the problem. If it's too much then tune down or remove another disc to compensate. For example I'd be willing to give up thunderfoot completely if our crit rates were double what they are now. It's also something that the dev team can plan for, adjust, and gets rid of the variability.

Other smaller suggestions:
1) In the past I'd suggested that our BP click be a self-only ruchu. Nice temporary burn boost that is only ever 10 min instead of 3 like shm can.
2) Stop giving us abilities that will never ever get used because they share timers with always-better choices. (Step-pattern abilities, inviso pet abilities, etc)

Always running disc inc for monks !!