So... Monks.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Sundance, Feb 10, 2017.

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  1. Kunon Augur

    Fixed that for you. Are you even vaguely aware of the DPS tank, priest, and other support classes are capable of doing?
    Sancus likes this.
  2. Triconix Augur

    Which makes it even more ridiculous that they refuse to scale bards. There's literally no reason why I should be out dpsing a bard.

    Not really.
  3. fransisco Augur

    Tanks can match dps numbers with support. That means their dps potential is too high.
    Im obviously excluding berzerkers because they also are about 50% to high on their dps.
  4. Gelido Lorekeeper

    Everyone gets everything!! Clerics can match zerkers in dps! Rogues can heal as well as clerics! YAY balance! Lmao Pantheon needs to hurry, EQ is done
  5. valiantSeven Elder

    I've been pretty dumbfounded at the things some people have said on these forums, but I had to stand back in awe and regain my composure once I realized you weren't trolling and were actually serious. Like... are you even reading the stuff you write before you hit post? Be serious...

    Where do you even get these numbers from?! Are the people you play with so terribly bad that your DPS references make it seem like you're not even playing the same game as everyone else?

    I... I can't even. Is this real life?
  6. Minato Augur

    ive been away for about a month but if a shamans beating monk sustained i may not come back >.< any good shamans want to parse with me on test? lol
  7. Avory Augur

    I think there is an ongoing issue where people that don't fully know how to best play their class make demands or requests that don't reflect well on their understanding of the game.

    Monks should not be great tanks and great DPS with gobs of utility. I assume most have played EQ for more than just a little while but the first thing that needs to be understood is "utility" does not exists if you are so lazy that you don't even gain the basic gear and AA's available to you.

    Once upon a time people asked for sow, haste, invizo, lev... Now you click all that and much much more. We are all utility.

    On raids (triton) I see monks parse right next to us Rangers who parse *near* the top. Monks tank better, not amazingly so, but better. So how can monks "get more love" and not make other classes ask for the same?

    Shamans should not exist to give you buffs so you can be on your way. I don't play a shaman box anymore because they add so little. You have to have more than the ability to buff others with 2+ hour long buffs to be useful compared to other classes, like monks, or rangers....

    We all want more. I understand that... Rangers are in a great spot, but I could think of a few things that would make us better without going *god mode*.

    I'd rather not see my class lag behind because shamans were made useful again and another class get's buffed due to fear of something not even in the live version of the game while my class stands stagnant. I say all this with hopes that shaman's new dots are TESTED on the TEST server properly and brought into balance. But until shaman dots go LIVE on the LIVE server I'll not ask for my class to get buffed based on what I see on the test server.
  8. Mykaylla Augur

    Not quite. Staff Block existed for monks well before casters (Seeds of Destruction, three years before casters got it in Veil of Alaris) because shields they could use were the exception, not the rule, and they lost so much damage equipping one while light tanking that it was a losing proposition to try to prolong survivability and ghetto tank that way even if you could get one. Dual wielding at that time was superior DPS to 2HB, so they got staff block to essentially be their "defensive option." It's because it belonged to monks first, who are melee, a "utility DPS avoidance tank-ish" class that had no shield block AAs (and 2handers do not get the AC-not-subject-to-soft-cap that shields do). and was copypasted that the values were so high for a silk class. It was requested for casters primarily because of the straight up (non-necro) DPS casters, as the 2HB had become the superior DPS option to stick-and-boarding it up, and they didn't want to be losing out on shield block to max their DPS on raids, where a propensity to deal a lot of damage and gear up like a glass cannon can easily turn you into a smear on the floor.

    This, of course, meant that there was one option that was best in every way for the casters- the two-handers, being superior DPS and superior survivability, which was not what was intended. It unfortunately nerfed monks also as a result. It would make sense to revert that change for the class that originally had the ability, since it wasn't a problem through those extra years of having the AA... except that now 2handers *are* DPS for monks, with their newer weapons, so I'm not sure if that would be desired by the Powers That Be anymore.
    Ishtass likes this.
  9. MrMajestykx Augur

    there is always one, was waiting for the done post.....seems its been done many times before. Play your classes people, even with nerfs EQ has not kept monks down, and if your monks are not parsing with the rest, something is wrong behind the keys.

  10. Gelido Lorekeeper

    Haha by all means i was not saying monks are underrated. In all Honesty we are actually decent. If you get out dps'd by shms or druids etc in this up coming patch, you simply do not understand how to play a monk.
    People will continue to complain, " my class needs love, my class needs this, and that." Yeah sure it sucks when you get a nerf. Everyone gets it, some things suck like the SKs nerf, it could have been adjusted into a more reasonable nerf.
    Monks could use improve i suppose if you really think so, we can pull, we can off tank or tank, we can fd ( granted so can everyone else in game ) we can have sustained dps if you know what you are doing. I have no issues out parsing others in raid, or group, the only class i have yet to beat in dps during EoK is a Zerker.
    But soon people are going to complain, " yada yada" zerkers get nerf, then rogues, clerics shouldnt be able to out heal a druid and all that annoying stuff. It's the same as it has always been. I should correct my prior statement of "EQ is done", as that is my opinion, i believe its done. Others will continue to play it, and good for them, it was a fun enjoyable game. I will still be on off and on to check in with those i group with.
  11. Tenaka Lorekeeper

    I haven't played seriously or raided in 10 months or so on my monk, but I'm about 100% sure I could log on and still destroy warriors, shaman and whoever else want's to step up to the plate. Triconix knows'=) We were guilded and kicked . That being said .....give monks some damn love.
  12. Dropfast Augur

    As usual, I'm not asking for God like zerker DPS or anything, just for the devs to actually listen for once on some small key changes. Year after year we just keep getting stupid crap that doesn't really help us at all. Were so far behind on some these small things now that they will likely never be done. Much of the stuff I'd like to see is really easy things to implement that should have been done like 4+ years ago.

    Monks are extremely ADPS dependent. We only do the DPS we do on raids because of like 6 other classes boosting us. In a group setting our DPS drops dramatically. So much so that one my SK friends did more DPS than me in both short burns and sustained recently. Which is some crap. At no time should knights be able to out DPS a DPS class. I don't care if it's a sub 60 sec fight or over the coarse of 30 mins. If shaman and druids start out DPSing me as well, then yea I'm get pissed and rightfully so ><.

    This goes for every class. If the Devs would actually consult with veteran players from each class during the ALPHA of each new expansion, things would be so much better. Why is someone who doesn't even play the game, let alone my class, telling me what I do or don't need? People who don't even know the basics of a class are in charge of new stuff / fixing things... It's a joke really. So much dev time is wasted every single year all because they won't accept player help. /sad panda

    I dunno, maybe I need a break but it just urks the hell out me the current state of things. We got zerkers doing 2-3 x my DPS on raids, also doing 5-10x my DPS in group setting, killing end game trash in 1-5 seconds. We got Knights out DPSing us in group setting. I don't believe it yet but supposedly shaman/druids out DPSing me soon. Instead of addressing crap like that they are more worried about fixing punctuation and nerfing enchanter runes? It's like wtf...
    Quility, Ssdar, Minato and 3 others like this.
  13. Muji Augur

    Monks need love in the form of lower reuse time on purify body and imitate death down to 1min.
  14. RangerGuy Elder

    Have you seen a tank with a 2h weapon going full bore dps in a fully supported adps group? I thinks not.

    Just for reference I have an alt sk in a blend of tbm raid gear and eok t2 group gear. He has zero issues doing 70-100k in the group game tanking with a 2h. In raids I have seen 600k paladin and warrior burst parses when for and giggles they were put in a adps group.
  15. MrMajestykx Augur

  16. Password1234 Augur

    I think monks could use some more combat abilities that share a timer with Synergy, or maybe some self buffs that don't stack with Zan Fi's Whistle.
    Ishtass likes this.
  17. Lisard Augur

    Move nimble reflexes, Shaded step, Eye of the storm to -1 timers
    bring Crane stance down to a 1m reuse
    bring Dragon's Balance line down to 7-13m reuse to fall in line with our other adps abilities
    give us AA to increase our 1hb,h2h and 2hb skill caps (levels always helped us in this department but since you know we been 105 for a few years now.
    make our dicho form a permanent buff where we gotta click it every time we zone (like battlestomp for wars/zerks)
    up our Thunderfoot proc rate a little bit more
    Give us our Staff Block % back.
    An updated Version of Zalikor's Fang (i hate pets and im upset i have to use them again this expansion)
    *STOP F*&KING GIVING US THROWING DPS ABILITIES*(or put Sting of the wasp on -1 timer, just sayin)
    Dropfast, Ssdar, Vrinda and 2 others like this.
  18. Minato Augur

    Make terrorpalm passive... its crap anyway and might just help us =P.... then axe the disc and give us something useful =) maybe something to boost our leet throwing dps
  19. Gumby Augur

    To make it clear, I don't know much about how to play a Shaman to their fullest, but I did test some #'s on the Test server recently because I was curious. These #'s were taken when the first DoT wore off.

    The 2 Combo DoT lines they have will easily now sustain 75-80k. These are quick casts and very efficient.

    Add in 1 more Poison and 2 Magic DoT's and they move to around 130-135k. Hitting 1st Spire moves them to the 170-180k mark. Adding in Fleeting Spirt AA and this moves to 300-325k. The Shaman I used has the Twincast clicky, so tried that next and 400k was in play.

    Just to note, doing the same full burn on Live only gave 50-55k. So that is the type of increase they have on Test currently.

    Also note, this is with zero ADPS support beyond what the Shaman can do themselves. Add in Bard/Chanter and who the hell knows how high this can go.

    All of this is coming from someone that mains a Monk and knows very little about how to maximize a Shaman's abilities, so all of that could only potentially be improved upon.

    So, yeah. Except for optimal raid settings with full support, Shamans very well could be beating you regularly in sustained DPS mostly due to all of their mana recovery tools.

    I don't claim to be the best Monk ever, but just to give an idea of where I rank within my guild I'll go ahead and post the combined parse of a Droga Raid recently. In the hopes of giving some context about knowing what I can do on a regular basis and what I'm seeing with these DoT changes.

    (Names hidden to protect the innocent virgins.) -- Note that most casters stand too far away on the boss and melee get a boost on combined from the quick trash kills.

    /GU Combined: A priest of Droga in 467s, 1299623k @2782919sdps --- Berserker + pets 111171k@(243795dps in 456s) [8.55%] --- Berserker + pets 91939k@(202509dps in 454s) [7.07%] --- Berserker + pets 79282k@(224595dps in 353s) [6.1%] --- Berserker + pets 70178k@(152561dps in 460s) [5.4%] --- Ranger + pets 66272k@(144698dps in 458s) [5.1%] --- Monk 63026k@(135831dps in 464s) [4.85%] --- Rogue 58142k@(129205dps in 450s) [4.47%] --- Magician + pets 54659k@(118310dps in 462s) [4.21%] --- Ranger 50282k@(10836 ...

    I can list out all the ways I feel the Monk class needs improvements, but I really am tired of beating a dead horse when the Dev's obviously don't care to listen.

    Love the class, love the playstyle, but it really gets you down when you go year after year of getting sub-par trash for improvements. I haven't been excited about anything in a very long time.
    Quility and Dropfast like this.
  20. Dropfast Augur

    Well that's troublesome news for sure. I'll know for sure soon anyway as I have a box shaman that's tied to my hip. But yea, after like 6 years of no real improvements except for Dicho and countless rounds of nerfs, it sure feels like I've gained nothing. We do gain dps each year from AA's / new weapons but our discs / abilities / timers are so far behind now it's a joke.

    Instead of some needed upgrades like a new Zalkor's Fang, we got an upgrade to our swarm pets!! So now they do like 250 dps up from 225 dps from last year. Such a meaningful upgrade! That increased my dps by like 12.5 dps! Ballin.... Next year it be an upgrade to Contraforce or some stupid crap.

    They could help us out a ton just by moving some discs / timers around and/or reducing some refresh timers. This would be really easy and fast for them to do. No need to make anything new or anything. Just a few swaps / reductions would help us out a lot. I already mentioned some of these in the BP thread but everything Lisard mentioned above would work too. All good ideas.
    Ishtass likes this.
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