Paladin Wishes

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Allayna, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Silverstone Journeyman

    1. Make blessing of the faithful a passive ability.

    2. Unlimited counters to preservation.

    3. Half the reuse time of all discs.

    Paladin balanced without stealing from another class for ideas.
  2. Ofearl Augur


    That is absolutely ridiculous!

    I support reduced timers, and timer extensions earned via AA....
  3. yepmetoo Augur

    The only discs we have that could conceivably get a shorter reuse timer would be:

    1) Pureforge, reduce by about 25%
    2) Holyforge, reduce as much as you want, its awful, in all seriousness, could reduce it down to 15 minutes if they really wanted.
    3) Sanctification, reduce as much as you want, everything flagged unresistable anyway =P

    No reason any of our defensive discs should be faster.
  4. Allayna Augur

    I’d prefer minor increases to disc duration through AA. Focus lines that cost 100 or 200 AA that add 3 ticks and then 3 more ticks to a disc.

    Obviously fort/deflect exempt.

    A reduction in shield flash recast or 1 tick extension would be a pretty appreciated improvement as well.
  5. shiftie Augur

    I would add blunted blade to this.

    I would also increase the proc damage to a much bigger boom, they could literally do 200k dmg and still be balanced.

    200k*2/60 based on 2 ppm is 6.67k dps if a mob had 1 mil base hp that’s less than 1% of total hp

    Even if it went off 5 times it would only be 1.6% of a mob hp at 16k dps

    When we move mob hp to actual levels this becomes increasingly insignificant. They have the ability to control dps through procs and choose not to. It is one of the few things that doesn’t gain exponentially it is infuriating to click a long cool down disc for a 2% increase in kill rate. It is much worse when you get standard upgrades via spreadsheet increases that lag behind mudflation of mob hp due to other exponential growth abilities under extreme conditions dps support.

    If I have an ability it should matter when I click it, I shouldn’t click it because I have nothing better to do. These dps modifications we get /glare second spire with flat damage increases when we swing or proc using slower weapons is lackluster at best.

    In HoT our spell/melee was split 50/50. Now we are back to an 20/80 split I’d like to see spell dps jump back to 50/50 so I can feel like I’m contributing by casting. Chain casting for marginal dps feels like spamming flash of light for aggro. We got the spell upgrades to be useful and now they are marginalized back to sod era when we were happy to have a spell to cast on live mobs that wasn’t thunder of Karana hoping ghoulbane would proc.

    Hell I’d be happier with a new ghoulbane that had a 500k dd proc just so I could watch the numbers and feel lucky every now and again
    Brohg likes this.
  6. Cragzop Augur


    I would like to say you are wrong about this split … but I just looked at my weekend GMM Howls logs and my numbers were even worse than that running a crush/dps spell lineup. I do have the knight raid 2h on my pally, but I saw 94melee/6dd … and that's giving the swing procs to dd. Looking at old GMM runs, looks like I ran around 12 percent dd (again not separating out procs) over the summer (with raid 2hb). I'm probably not pushing casts as hard as I could and I was running FoD and not DP … but wow.

    I'm not sure the balance should necessarily be 50/50... but 80/20 is too big a swing IMO.


    Why? Not trying to be contrarian but have you considered what cutting the discs in half would do for your play?

    The game has shifted to faster spawn rates in zones and heavy hits/aes … and it's pretty clear that classes with faster refreshes on their major tools have received (I think) unintended advantages over classes with longer timers (*cough* casters *cough*). Any decent raid force now doing GMM1-2 will tell you how much it sucks to have very little/nothing up for GMM2 after racing through GMM1.

    What happens if Deflection drops to 20m? 15m? Mantle to 7m30s? Guardian to even 6m? Are you winning an event because you might get 2 Guardians and/or 2 Mantles instead of just one? Probably not. But you are much more likely to have it for the next event. And maybe those guilds that need a little extra get some marginal benefit from it. That's a win-win in my book for raiding.

    And is anything grossly affected in the group game by shorter defensive timers?

    Dev time is seemingly too valuable to worry about revisiting class balancing. If I'm going to be underpowered (relative) on my paladin, at least let me click stuff more. I think time (refresh, cast time, global cooldowns) for all things, but especially spells need to be the next avenue to explore for game enjoyment. Down with spell timers and 24s refreshes!
  7. Metapsyche Augur

    I’ll echo crazyop here, as I joked about in my Paladin dps thread- we’re really heavy white damage right now. I’d like to see a better balance- but I’d like to achieve that balance solely thru the INCREASE in spell damage, lol. If anything I’d vote to help all casters out via improving the effect of bonus spell and healing from gear. What if the spell damage number was converted to a % increase on the back end that scales as you get closer to a “magic” number.

    2000 spell damage = 15% (or whatever)
    2100 = 20%
    2200 = 30%
    2300 = 45%
    2400 = 50%

    Wouldn’t need to be those numbers obviously but just an idea to help improving gear actually affect spell damage in a noticeable way.
    Allayna likes this.
  8. Metapsyche Augur

    How about LoH being able to be used as a divine Rez?
  9. Allayna Augur

    Or Act of Valor...
  10. Metapsyche Augur

    Act of Valor- lose 15% xp, mass buff Devine Rez
  11. p2aa Augur

    I think paladin burn DPS is in line with what it should be compared to warrior for example.
    Paladins could use a small boost to sustained DPS. What about they get a weaker version of warrior's battle leap AA (as warrior is one of the paladin's parent class could fit the lore too) ? This would be up all time and would help sustained DPS. Could set it to 10-15 % hit damage increase.
  12. Wulfhere Augur

    I think paladin tanking needs some improvement in two areas:

    1. Enough tanking discs to cover tanking longer fights with no gaps. We have 3 mitigation discs that last 2+2+1 minutes, 5 whole minutes against raid mobs. After that we have to chain cast a very narrow set of spells to survive, which leads me to point two.

    2. Sub 0.5s cast spells for tanking. Spells that needs to cast quicker: Protective Devotion and Censure. 1 second casting time spells are TOO SLOW to cast while tanking raid mobs. With discs down and interrupted spells, a paladin is helpless.
  13. Metapsyche Augur

    I would love an AA to reduce censure to .5 but that would make me unkillable... so yes I want this LOL
  14. Wulfhere Augur

    No it won't since it has a magic-15 resist modifier.

    Censure (and Protective) is 0.8s cast time with focus now and I get interrupted while tanking raid mobs often enough to be annoyed by it. Sometimes 2 or 3 times in a row, and with a fizzle in there it's death. Which means these lines are no longer viable tanking spells, as they've been since HoT (and UF), and they need more focus to bring them down to 0.5s casting. I can cast Valiant reliably so that should work.

    Right now, I can weave Valiant, Refute, and Spurn just fine to mitigate damage. Trying to fill in the gaps with either Protective or Censure gets interrupted too much. Force of Mercy on cool down can smooth out damage. Dissonant Force finally gets in my spell bar too because I'm grasping for anything I can cast without being interrupted when all discs and item clicks are down. Improving the cast time of at least one of those two spells seems in order.

    A 4th disc involving a bargain with say Brell would be even better. I believe that Hand of Tunare might have been (intended as) something like that, combined with Preservation of the Iceclad, except for the 10 count limit over 6 minutes duration is a lot of dead time. Pun intended.
  15. Metapsyche Augur

    In my humble opinions,

    Censure -> Valiant -> Admonish -> Ostracize on rotation with the censure line being a .5 cast would be incredibly powerful amounts of HToT. Again I’m all for it, but it may be a bit excessive.

    Merciful Remedy - .5s cast 11783 hp
    Censure - .5s cast (potentially) 8233 hp

    That would make Paladin HTOT’s doing ~70% of a cleric’s best spam heal line. While again, I LOVE this idea, I just think it may be a bit much without other changes. Generally speaking I’m a fan of most of not all Paladin spells getting hefty cool downs (not that silence BS) in order to make them near or instant cast.

    Maybe an aa ability to increase the cooldown of all spells (not global) by 100% but allows all spells to be instant cast for 30 seconds or something along that line? That could be a nice situational AA
  16. Wulfhere Augur

    Paladins can already load up 2 or 3 Burst line spells and achieve Remedy results at higher mana cost. We do this in mini-cleric mode. Using Burst to self heal while tanking is what I don't want to go back to because of the awful tab-target, cast, tab-target mechanic.

    The way things are now, paladins have to fill their mitigation gap, when the 3 primary discs are down, with AotI (AC+Healing focus) which stacks and the two abilities cover 8:48s. For the 3:48s that mitigation is at base levels, we need to receive more heals and crucially cast self-heals. ToT heals are very much preferred. Only Valiant fits that category and I think we need at least 1 more, be it Censure or Protective or something new.

    Otherwise we revert to loading Bursts and have more trouble holding aggro, due to mechanics.
  17. RangerGuy Elder

    Don't want to detract from this thread by friends swear by the power of increased healing. Whats the uptime when you factor in spire, epic, AoTI and GoTI?
  18. Metapsyche Augur


    I agree that tabbing to self heal is terrible. However, burst is NOWHERE close to remedy healing. As I’ve explained multiple times before...

    Remedy
    .5s cast, global cooldown, .5s cast, global cooldown, until the end of time

    Burst
    .25s cast (business baby), 3 SECOND GLOBAL COOLDOWN, ... oops I died

    Spamming bursts is actually the slowest healing over time we can do. Even merciful touch at 3.75s cast is a faster cast speed because you cannot reduce the 3s spellbar lockout of burst.

    Burst is a targeted clutch heal. In the current game, the speed at which people take damage makes burst essentially useless because you’re not going to reactively save a tank (maybe once in a while, but I’d be impressed). Burst is essentially the same thing that’s wrong with LoH in that while I’ve saved myself with it, who knows of a cleric heal was going to save me anyway and I just randomly clicked LoH because.
    Brohg likes this.
  19. Metapsyche Augur

    What if we compromised and gave Paladin targeted heals HTOT, that would be awesome. Only thing it really does is let us keep swinging our weapon while self healing or healing the main tank
  20. Paradisic_parasite Elder

    That would mean we can't heal our target unless it has itself targetted. Not a good idea unless it could be made to only be ToT when we are targetting an npc, but I dont think the code supports that atm?

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