Paladin Wishes

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Allayna, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Allayna Augur

    I thought I'd start the conversation about future desires going forward into the next expansion. Please give feedback that you all think would benefit the class.

    Removal of counters either through AA focus line or just as an improvement to the preservation line. Increase the hate component to 20% to match that of the knight counterpart spell. Remove stacking issues with druid Guard of the Reptile.

    Cure component of splash - toggle on / off with AA.

    Ability to toggle off slay undead - once toggled off, unable to toggle on for 20 minutes. This ability would increase live DPS by X % while off.

    Increase in power to slay undead - no upgrades since EoK.

    Valorous Rage revamp - no increase since RoF.

    Improvement on Blessed Aura - make it similar to shaman aura in that it's song window and permanent until death. Perhaps add AC/HME to or end regen. Perhaps tie yaulp into our permanent aura.

    Improvement to harmonious spell - we didn't receive an upgrade to this spell like all the other classes with one did. Perhaps a small, 15 or 30 ft around your target stun off of heals rather than just a single target stun.

    Likewise Holy Alliance did not see an upgrade like all of the other class alliance spells. Paladin alliance is relatively half of the damage of any other alliance and eats a debuff slot, making it not as useful. I assume the justification for that is the stun component that only goes to level 110? Let it proc an AE heal if the damage is going to remain half of every other class on it's fulmination rather than a stun.

    Act of Valor 3 - You sacrifice yourself to enact an AE Heal + HoT, instead of death, you lock @ 1% health until the AE HoT fades.

    Blunted Blade is outdated - Lvl 103 stun? Improvements to make it a viable disc.

    Pureforge is outdated - No improvements to that line since lvl 90.

    Holyforge is outdated - No improvements since lvl 55.

    Thunder of Karana is outdated - No improvements since TBM.

    Separate Armor of Mercy line and Devout Penitence line for disc timers. That would allow us similar disc uptime that other tanks experience.

    Hand of Tunare could use a revamp - Personally don't use it because 18s of silence is pretty significant.

    Sanctification is useless in today's raid game as all the raid AEs are flagged as unresistable.

    Blessing of the Faithful AA needs an improvement, it does zero self healing or group healing and is inferior by 200 AC to it's knight counterpart - Mortal Coil.

    Improvement upon Marr's Salvation - added ranks to increase the reduction in hate, they would also allow you to cast it on the mob. If cast on the mob, decreases everyone's hate on the hatelist by 15%.

    Blessing of Life AA improvement with AA ranks to proc the heal for the group.

    Presence of Divinity - A chance for those stunnable creatures to be stunned twice as long.

    Remove hate reduction from Admonish line of spells.

    Allow one of our spell lines a chance to turn a mob undead for a brief time. It could be crush, admonish or remembrance line. It could be either the spell itself or the passive ability with AA.

    This goes for all tanks - SCR was nerfed to not effect discs. How about a disc AA for all tanks that increases their duration, obviously this would exclude fortitude and deflection. SCR extends buffs timers by 100%, I'm not asking for anything close to that long. Perhaps the first rank could extend all defensive discs by 5 ticks. The second and final rank by another 5 ticks. Let it cost 200 AA per rank.

    I think that's a good starting list. Any feedback and suggestions are appreciated from those who love the paladin class and would like to see improvements to it.
    KarmaKitty, tyrantula and Metapsyche like this.
  2. Metapsyche Augur

    I like the idea of all Paladin heals being able to be cast on an NPC and they’ll HToT similar to lay on hands. Could be a bit much, but I love the idea of it so I’ll vote for it lol.
    Allayna and tyrantula like this.
  3. Petalonyx Augur

    From the perspective of a group paladin vs current end game group content:

    Healing is in a good place.

    Tanking, as a fundamental role of Paladin, is not. Specifically, there are problems handling spike damage in TBL, even vs 2-3 trash. A bump to our HP buffs, a reactive heal/rune triggered by 50k dmg, These things would help with this specific problem.

    Paladin mana and endurance are full way too often, no matter what I seem to do. Give us somethimg expensive and useful to spend those resources on. Resources never factor into my decisions, and that feels like a missed opportunity.

    Can I please Yaulp on a horse? New or expanded AA building on Yaulp would be cool. Add a max HP / AC /agil component to yaulp through AA.
    KarmaKitty and Allayna like this.
  4. Qbert Augur

    • Such a large number of spells that could be used are not with any regularity (if at all) . . . because we are 10-20 spell slots short (or more). Maybe more of our spell lines could be converted into aa that cast the highest rank of . . . yadda yadda. Or perhaps some of the spell lines could be converted into disciplines not only to free up the spell slot but in some cases to actually be used. What I would not be in favor of is more consolidation (e.g. losing our undead slow/cripple aa to have it combined into a hate over time spell that I rarely use, and in some cases actively do not want to use where I might still want to slow/cripple the mob).
    • Perhaps an second version of the unity aa could be considered that would cast some of our shorter term buffs to, again, free up spell slots (defiant stance line, revitalizing steel line and perhaps a toggle to include/omit preservation and harmonious).
    • I sure wouldn't mind getting the self-DI we were slated to get in Depths of Darkhollow.
    • I would like my sense undead aa back. :)
    • Kind of an off the wall suggestion: for those random clickies that are specific to spell lines we get, perhaps they could get some coding love to auto-cast either the given buff/debuff/heal/whatever, or the highest spell we know in that line. I am thinking about this from the mount perspective, where all of your mounts inherit the speed of the highest-speed mount you know. For example: Terror's Juju would cast Mark of the Martyr for anyone that acquires it, but for paladins it would cast Mark of Orthiss (and for clerics, Mark of Shandral), and the same thing with the brell's line clickies and the group heal clickies, etc.
    • I agree some additional improvements to slay undead would be nice. Obviously the most welcome would be damage/frequency increases. If those are not on the table, perhaps some additional bonuses could be built in - every slay has a small chance to trigger condemnation strike or remembrance trigger or vanquish the fallen or . . . something. On the flipside, if improvements to our own dps are not on the table, maybe bake in some minor version of slay undead into our group armor of the inquisitor to impart that ability unto others . . . since we're already buffing them (or heck, bake it into our aura or one/all of our spires).
    • Maybe change the haste component of yaulp to be overhaste.
    Allayna likes this.
  5. Brohg Augur

    Getting Reactive that works on melee damage sounds like a great addition for paladins. As a level expansion, though, we're probably looking at "core linup" spell upgrades, not new things. What you may want instead is a version of Rng AA Nature's Reprieve / War Blade Guardian ?
  6. Wulfhere Augur

    How about an alternative splash spell that lacks cures on the same timer as the current Splash?

    This alt Splash could heal for a bit more or have a stacking Knight's Synergy style rune. The Devs could even introduce lower level spells to retroactively introduce this spell gem choice down to level 83.
    Allayna likes this.
  7. Chaosflux Augur

    Awesome suggestion, I wish this would happen.

    However now that we have said that we are more likely to get a new Sense Undead spell, or maybe MGB True North. Lol.

    I'd love a 2nd splash, it could even have a lower recast but on the same timer.
  8. Livvy_CT Lorekeeper

    I’d like to see some aggro increases, I feel like we need to work much harder to hold aggro then the other tank classes
    Nennius and tyrantula like this.
  9. tyrantula Elder

    Most of the OPs suggestions are excellent, especially the DPS increase for slay undead toggle AA. That said:

    I would like aggro increases all across the board.
    Lower recast timer on crushes and force's via AA
    Lower recast timer on Beacon of the Righteous & Hallowed Lodestar
    Remove mob limit on Beacon of the Righteous & Hallowed Lodestar.
    Add an additional AE hate + group heal component (maybe combine aurora + merciful force)

    I don't even use a handful of spells because they're just not even worth memming. Rememberence? Hand of Tunare isn't even on my hotbar. Act of Valor has been used once or twice as a joke.

    I REALLY like the idea of heals being cast on target of target automatically (LoH, morninglight, etc).

    Overall, aggro (both single and AE) are extremely poor.
    KarmaKitty likes this.
  10. Metapsyche Augur

    Remove Silence from Burst line of spells (would make us truly viable group healers thru progression)

    Remove Timer 9 from Light line of spells (may be too much but I love the idea)

    Reduce cool down on expiation line of spells thru AA (could be OP)

    Remove revitalizating steel as a spell and add it as a passive proc on crit (your critical hits have a chance to infuse you with divine power, causes your next 5 melee attacks to heal your targets target)

    I’d personally be OK with moving Paladins AWAY from stunning but I doubt that would happen. Maybe add more HTOT type stuns similar to Force of Mercy line?

    If we get a new progression spell similar to diss / dicho, let’s not make it a stun. How about a huge HoT?

    GREATLY increase the max mana usage and healing of the aurora line or reduce the cast time.
    tyrantula likes this.
  11. Chaosflux Augur

    There is no silence on Burst, there is a 3s spellbar lockout, just for clarity. If you remove that theres no reason to remove the timer 9 on lights since Bursts are not on a linked timer and cast faster and heal harder.
  12. Metapsyche Augur

    Light would be realistically spammable. With burst being on a 12s cooldown you’d need way too many spell slots to spam just bursts. As it stands Light -> Burst is ALMOST spammable. Even just synergizing those two to line up slightly better for a smoother heal curve would be pretty amazing. Currently it’s cast, cast, pause which isn’t the most effective in a healing game that’s turned into spamming quick spells preemptively.
  13. shiftie Augur

    Which is why we aren’t clerics. We don’t need the ability to heal with 0 downside.
    Chaosflux, Wulfhere and Allayna like this.
  14. Allayna Augur

    Whose out there playing a paladin and using targeted heals? You’re either getting HTT healed if I’m not the MT or you’ll get splash or wave...but to stop doing my primary role to target another to heal them is a definite step backwards imo.
  15. Warpeace Augur

    We have plenty of group heals to spam non stop and keep gems on lockdown and be more efficient that single target healing. Its either passthrough heals or group heals as a Paladin so we keep doing our other job.

    Would not mind a bump in pass through healing efficiency.

    Remove the negative agro mod from the Censure line already.
    Allayna and Metapsyche like this.
  16. Metapsyche Augur

    *shrugs* It’s not even like there’s currently a downside to healing for us. Paladin healing through put is amazing, i just don’t personally enjoy reactionary healing. Works great if you’re a cheater, that instantaneous reaction time is clutch, but in the current game of preemptive healing it makes Paladin healing feel pretty clunky. With the high premium on spell gems (we have so many good / useful spells) it’s often difficult for me to warrant a gem slot for burst when it silences (sorry QUIETS) me for 3 seconds.

    I don’t disagree that we’re NOT clerics, I’m just offering some changes that would in my opinion flesh out the viability for Paladins to continue to fill the roll of tank or healer. Maybe an activated stance (similar to bold attacks) that increases damage taken while making us a more effective healer? Martyrs Stance or something along that line. Increase damage taken, health slowly drains, increases spell haste to allow 1s touch’s?

    Just some ideas like I said :)
  17. Warpeace Augur

    Your not going to get around the 3 sec global cool down or whatever it is for spell casts. That is unless they give us some crazy AA to thread between spell casts and thats just not going to happen.

    You can literally spam group heals currently non stop back to back with no cooldown and the gem not refreshing. Its a better use of your mana for healing.
  18. Metapsyche Augur

    Oh sorry I wasn’t trying to avoid the GCD just the 3s quiet from burst
  19. Allayna Augur

    We have a stun that does place a HoT on the TT.

    I wouldn't mind seeing more combo stun/heal abilities like that, perhaps a stun/mark, a stun/wave, a stun/turn undead (one can dream)....

    As long as mobs are not completely immune to stun (EoK/RoS) stuns remain a viable tool for paladins. A stun locked mob is 100% slowed after all.
    Metapsyche likes this.
  20. Warpeace Augur

    I'm not following you.

    Our Burst of XXX line single target spells have a .3 sec cast and 12 sec refresh. They are like our self only panic heals. Can you elaborate more so maybe I can follow where your going with this.

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