Non-Raiding Necromancers

I am not here trying to take mana away from anyone (Magicians, Wizards, or Any other class). I just want mana added back to my class. Soon as this patch hits, us necros are screwed. These posts people are making. You would think us Necromancers are trying to crawl down your chimney, and steal all your mana while your sleeping.

I am just here trying to address a nerf that is going to hit my class hard, and make the class horrible to play.

Wizards have to FD to loose aggro? Wizards have to FD when pulling for groups?

Right, I thought not... well necromancers do, and we do it allot, so much so that we don't use mounts, unless en-route to someplace.

Mana reserve is only usable when below 20% mana. When giving references about other classes, including stuff like this greatly adds to your creditabilty and the creditablity of your numbers.

That being said, good luck getting your nerf softened. Hope the upcoming nerfs are not gonna unbalance the necro/mage/wiz balance unneedely.

Also I don't include Necromancers "Rune" spell - Zombieskin RK. ll 1047 mana to cast, gives 11 mana / tic. Because Death Bloom knocks this spell off of us. So we can never benefit from using it.

You are correct, which makes this ability situational. WTB ability to edit posts longer than 30 mins....

I thought the balance was fairly decent between us casters. In a group necromancers wont beat wizards, or magicians. With how fast things die in group, we take too long to "ramp up". It's always been, the faster your group kills, the worse necromancers perform (dps). But I can live with that, I just want to be somewhat competitive, not bottom of the barrel. The coming DB nerf is going to change all that tho sadly.

I ment when it first come out. underfoot

He is absolutely serious. I am also dead tired of hearing casters wanting it all. Go play world of warcraft if you want easy mode - it has done enough damage on the playerbase already that some classes has won every area of the game.. Pure pleasure not pain. While other classes were Pure pain no gain.

Certainly entitled to your opinion. But you know the whole reason for this thread has to do with the group/solo game, and nothing to do with the raid game?

I think what is being forgotten here is the difference between classes. No one held a gun to your head, and told you what class to play.
Melee, or Ranged
Endurance based, Mana based, or Hybrid endurance + mana
Tank, Support, or DPS
Melee dps, or Caster dps
Healing support, ADPS support, Crowd Control - Pullin support
Burst dps, Sustained dps, BurStained dps
Soloer, or Group dependant
Tank endurance based very group dependant
Tank endurance and mana based, can solo to an extent, can heal others, cures, can root
Tank endurance and mana based, can solo to an extent, good self heals via taps, can pull, snare
ect...

I can go on and on with this list. The thing is, you should know what a class can, and can't do. If not, shame on you for not researching, or asking others. Pick what you enjoy, but don't begrudge another player from choosing a different class who can do something you can't.

I'm not asking for the ability to do great Burst damage. I'm not asking to have a pet as good as a magician, or beastlord. I'm not asking to be able to heal others like a priest. I'm not asking for the ability to Swarm, Headshot (first character to hit 100 on all servers was a headshoting ranger, I don't want to see them nerfed, grats, you hit 100 first good job), Decapitate.

I'm not asking for the ability to gather a whole zone up, an hit reposte disc, /profit camp out come back in 45 mins, an do it all over again while lessons of the devoted doesn't tic away. Or to beam whole zones down for incredible xp. I didn't ask for the ability to charm kite all the way to 100 solo.

I choose a necromancer, someone with great sustained, and who can solo well historically this goes back to 1999. We didn't just wake up one morning, and all of a sudden had the ability to solo, when we didn't in the past. We have always been that way.

Why are people throwing fits over other peoples abilities. You don't see me spazzing out here. All I am asking is for my classes mana regen to not be nerfed into oblivion. I'm not crawling into your window stealing your candy. I'm not jumping into other classes threads, trying to screw them over.

I'm not trying to kill your raid parses. It seems like the most resentment is coming from the raid community. I'm sorry, but not everyone raids. Raiding is just one part of the game. There is another part of the game, where people group up with friends, go exploring, and have fun together.

All this competition is crazy. You picked your class, you knew ahead of time what you were getting into. You knew class such_n_such could do ability X, while your class you picked coudn't, but could do ability Y, while they couldn't. Get over it, move on. If your class has problems, make a thread, like I am doing here, and bring it to the Devs attention.

I don't think some people will be happy until all the classes are homogenized to the point where no one recognizes what class A used to be, compared to class D. We all regen the same mana, hp, endurance. We all do the same damage in burst, sustained. We all can pull, solo, heal, buff, adps, charm, tank.Come on now, please...

It's crazy, it's late, and I'm rambling...

I have 2 issues with your analysis but let me start by saying i don't know what death bloom is but I assume that it's like wizard harvest where you get mana back with no other detrimental effects. The first issue I have is comparing to shaman canni. Canni gives mana but also takes away hitpoints. The hitpoints have to be healed and there is more risk involved. I'm not sure what the cost/benefit calculation should be - just saying that a straight comparison between necro and shaman is not valid.

The other issue I have is spell cost. A comparison of classes mana regeneration is useless without a comparison of how efficient/potent the spells are. Here again, I don't think you want to be comparing to shaman.

Necro death bloom takes 28000 health, gives 16800 mana. Canni is 40k health, for 21800 mana. Your canni is more efficient. So yes, its a *very* adept comparison as far as mana regen abilities go.


Not sure on spells, so not going into there

Just looked up 1 spell, fast dot to fast dot(used fast dot since thread is talking about group fight) for level 97

Shaman
[35380/14537] Elsrop's Malady Rk. II
Classes: SHM/97
Skill: Conjuration
Mana: 1498
Target: Single
Range: 200'
Resist: Disease -20
Casting: 1.5s, Recast: 24s, Timer: 4, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 12s (2 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
1: Increase Disease Counter by 30
2: Decrease Current HP by 5034 per tick (if Not Raid Boss)
3: Decrease Current HP by 1762 per tick (if Raid Boss)
Text: Your veins fill with a fast-acting disease.


Works out to 10.08 dmg per mana


Necro
[35551/9542] Itkari's Swift Deconstruction Rk. II
Classes: NEC/97
Skill: Conjuration
Mana: 1733
Target: Single
Range: 200'
Resist: Magic -75
Casting: 3s, Recast: 24s, Timer: 6, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 12s (2 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
1: Decrease Current HP by 6605 per tick (if Not Raid Boss)
2: Increase Curse Counter by 12
3: Decrease Current HP by 2312 per tick (if Raid Boss)
Text: Your body begins to break down.


Works out to 11.4 damage per mana

Spells are a good comparison between shamans and necros. Shamans use more mana for their heals than other priest classes because of their amazing mana regeneration. Necros use more mana for their damage because most of the damage of their dots is not achieved when a mob dies. Except now, necro mana regen is being reduced.

Huh?

For starters, unless your definition of 'efficient' means less return, then yes shaman is more efficient. Necro actually gets more return (60% mana ratio versus the HP taken) whereas Shaman gets 54.5% return ratio).

To the OP, please listen to people who are giving good advice, telling you to make things comparable. Regardless of whether you or some necros pull in groups, you can't seriously expect a Dev to look at a comparison of someone with horse versus without and say yes, that's comparable.

I am not afraid to admit I fall in the camp of this was needed (and Devs publically said it was needed) for a long time. But if you're going to make a case for change (which you have every right to), make it with legitimate comparisons. Otherwise you just hurt your cause.

Most likely they just did the math backward. Either way, there's not a huge gap in the efficiency.

Didnt hardly sleep so this could be backwards but... 28000/16800 = 1.6 mana per health. and 40000/21800= 1.8 mana per health.

That's 1.6 and 1.8 health per mana. Not mana per health.

Yep, i am a , but, its still a pretty good comparison

Until they change the mechanics, so that we don't have to FD to drop aggro in group (repeatedly), so I can sit on a horse the whole time. Then yes, it is a fair comparison. Why should I lie, and say I sit on a horse, when I don't (can't) because of the ammount of aggro DoT's generate. Let alone when I have to pull in a group.

Curious why you feel necromancers "needed" this nerf for a long time? Others classes don't? Just necromancers? Ok, it's your opinion...

I thought I was being very open, and pretty straightforward with all information provided.