Non-Raiding Necromancers

As one of the high ish end raiding necros, this nerf REALLY wont hurt me much, more of a pita.


The casual/hardcore groups and less... gifted raiders will be hit hard, really hard, ESPECIALLY casuals, I'm just really confused as to how the past expansion or 2 they've screamed DO IT FOR THE NON RAIDERS, then pretty much bend them over with a nerf like this lol.

This also made me lol. Though, I guess it is high time for clerics to twitch necros after all these years!

You may of had a case when it came out, and even during like hot, but come voa any reason for nerfing DB and ESPECIALLY ROF are nil, we've been the kings of mana regen for 13 years, what constitutes the change? If you say "consistently high on parses we produce" I ask you are all these parses 3+ mins? What happens when the game shifts back to 90% 90 second parses? I can do pretty well on 60 second parses in terms of numbers, but when real burst classes are doing 2x that, whats the big deal?

And by "real" burst classes, I also mean ones that know what the hell they are doing, I can find lots of necros that do less dps then I did during like, hot, but that doesn't mean they can't do more.

Look, let us ignore the whole "you need to FD left and right" angle. Let us pretend you are in a group, with a wizard in a dungeon. An indoor zone. Are you going to be mounted? Of course not. You're being awesome, pulling all the mobs, putting down so much dps that your aggro needs clearing. Is the wizard going to be mounted? No, because it is a dungeon. Groupers go into dungeons from time to time, I hear.

The thing that gets me is... People are going gaga, saying we need this nerf. While I am here trying to address the "Group / Solo" game. When the Death Bloom nerf hits us grouping, or soloing, it's going to kill us. Yet you don't see me saying Headshot, Decapitate, Assassinate, Charm Kiting, Swarm Kiting, Beam kiting, Riposte Disc tons of mobs.

You also don't see me saying omg, Shamans, Wizards, Magicians, Clerics, Beastlords mana regen abilities are too high. But you get people to roll in, and say necromancers need a nerf to their mana. Yet we don't even generate the most mana, other classes outdo us with their mana.

All I am asking is we be left alone. Or if thats not the case, give us a way to maintain, what we had before this coming nerf, in the group / solo game....

you started this. you bring other class into your auguement

If this is the only thing out of this whole thread your at odds with, then thats great.
So wizards go from 113 mana/second to 106 mana/second
Compared to necros 68 mana/second.
So you now you make 138,600 mana / hour more than necros do, after this coming Death Bloom nerf. Grats, good job.

But what happens when you happen to get enchanter 105 mana / tic buff.... Ya I left that out, want me to add that in? That would be another 40,800 mana added to you per hour? Which "we" necromancers cannot benefit from I remind you... So this takes you to 179,400 more mana than we get per hour...

you are still the King of mana regen is lich not the best mana regen in the game?

Other classes "have" to be brought into it. To show where we are in the list of mana production which is needed to perform our job.

Elidroth said we have "unlimited mana" in the raid game. Yet here I am trying to defend the group / solo game/player. As I am not a raider. So this nerf, that is supposed to target raiders, is also targeting the "non raiders". I don't know what else I can do to explain this to people...

To address Artemis's first question, I logged into the game after hearing about this change and started using Death Bloom on a 10 minute timer with my usual group. I ran out of mana within 15 minutes, and had to shift to doing less DPS in order to maintain mana and pull. That means that the BOXED BARD probably contributed near or more DPS than me...

When a boxed character contributes more than an actively played character, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. Yes I was pulling, but we now have a broad range of classes who can pull and do it better while providing better DPS. This change puts the class back to @2007-8 where the main complaint was that we didn't contribute enough to groups.

- Death Bloom was a change to ensure we contributed to GROUPS.
- Swift dots were a change to ensure we contributed enough to GROUPS.
- Swarm Pets DDs were a change to ensure we contributed enough to GROUPS.

All of our high damage fast acting spells have the detrimental aspect of having a high mana cost BECAUSE they have been balanced around having Death Bloom, and we have been given them in order to address the problems that necros once had with group desirability.

This change doesn't hurt the raider, it hurts the player in a GROUP the most. It is poorly conceived as a mechanism to address a problem that many would argue does not exist within the RAID environment.

My reaction btw was to cancel my account. No you can't have my stuff.

Let's be serious, this is not a huge issue. Necros will still have crazy sweet DPS for group situations and for Solo. OOC regen makes this raid nerf near irrelevant.

I'm not sure how bad it is in a group to sit out 1 kill in 40 or 50 to get some mana back. When exactly did we as players get the idea that mana is a never ending resource and characters should be able to produce huge DPS without some measure of recovery.

After the nerf the necro will still be one of the best solo classes in the game, (Some would argue the best) and they will be a welcome DPS option for any viable group.

Your logic(I use this term loosely, btw) is breaking my brain. If you want to throw it out that way, then no; bards are. Modded chorus is more then my lich+aa's+clicky+bst crack+everything else.

I still haven't seen anyone talk about the spell Ignite Thoughts

How much mana does that get you a cast? Does the "tap" get extended by detrimental extention? Haha, or is it even a tap? I might be reading the description wrong. I honestly don't know, and I wonder if necromancers never use the spell because Death Bloom made any form of mana regen other than lich not worth looking at.

...And if worse comes to worse, can always cast that rune once every 10 min for the 2 mana a second, being even if Death Bloom knocks it off, you'll still get more mana back than it costs to cast with Death Bloom's new 10 min recast, and you get a rune to boot. (A semi-joke.)

After all the information is given. Actual hard numbers, not made up crap. Everything posted here can be verified for correct values. The formula is sound. Yet people come and post, with no actual evidence. Just their "belief" saying you necros will still be #1....

I don't get it...

Please come an post hard numbers. Not assumptions.

That is one of our prime dps spells.

Also, my combat mana regen goes up nil after casting that spell. I think it's a mana DRAIN, vs a mana TAP.

We get a big fat ZERO mana return from casting that on mobs... It drains mana, it doesn't transfer that mana to us.

Rune costs 1049 mana to cast. Rune gives 11 mana / tic. 11*10*10 = 1100 mana... So in 10 minutes I have gained 51 mana just barely covered it's cost to cast. All that for keeping that on my spell bar, or going through the trouble of meming/de-meming each time I use Death Bloom....

Spell slot space is a high premium, no one will do that for 51 mana, every 10 mins. I mean it just barely covers the cost to cast it after 10 mins.

I don't know what to say??

Yeah, my bad. I guess I just sort of assumed it might have been a single target mind wrack. I'll bow out from here.

I assume you have some form of mana preservation, unless you managed to skip over spell casting mastery and a ring focus. The number would be a bit bigger, but that was part of the (it is a joke) at the end there, sorry if you're reading it seriously.

You're good, it was a valid question.

Also, the rune isn't really a + as you can see by Artemis' post.

Shaman spells are still less mana efficient in general to account for canni aren't they? Are necro spells also less mana efficient than other classes? Just curious.

If the point is to complain about a nerf meant to hit raiders hitting groupers, why not ask for a "lesser death bloom" that requires you to be in ooc to hit it, that has a shared lockout with DB, but the original recast time?

Replace the "lesser" with "as good if not better" and by job I think we have a winner here!

Was going to leave this up to Elidroth on what he wants to do (if he is even going to do anything...). It was his nerf afterall. No thought to the "non raiders" that his nerf effected. Which btw I am still pissed about. I'm just trying to scramble this together before we get nerfed. I wasn't able to post on the forums for the last 3 days (not my choice, was SOE's decision). So trying to make the most out of the time left. To save us groupers / soloers the grief this nerf is gonna bring us.

^^ This