Non-Raiding Necromancers

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by fransisco, Sep 28, 2013.

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  1. Robnie Augur

    Tripple the timer on your focused paragon, then come talk to us about mana management. We had mana management WITH death bloom being on a 3 min timer.
  2. Biltene Kingslayer

    This, a million times this.

    As a raid-geared wizard, I can go through mana much quicker than any class, even in a grouping situation. Yes, I have harvests and various ways of saving mana. However, if I'm in a fast pulling group, and I'm trying to do as much damage as I can, I will run oom at some point and have to med for a bit. Or, if I choose, I can cast more efficient spells, do a bit less damage, and not have to med. It's all about how I want to approach it. Either way, I can alter my style based on kill rate.

    I don't like nerfs, I'm really not looking forward to the one that's going to hit my class. But reading the posts in this thread really sound like this:

    "YOU MEAN I HAVE TO ACTUALLY MED??? OMG!" /ragequit
    Crystilla likes this.
  3. Tobynn Augur

    Makes me sad that I will no longer be able to chain pull mobs by the handfuls and destroy them effortlessly for hours and hours and hours until I eventually need a break simply because my hands are tired. Now, I might have to stop occasionally to med. The horror.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt the dramatics. Do carry on.
    Leerah likes this.
  4. Xirtket Augur

    I don't think this has much anything to do with being a "big boy"

    IMO it has more to do with being put into a reverted state that we were in before, when we weren't desirable or sought after for grouping, which is essentially what this is doing.. It wasn't a fun spot to be in. DB and swifts helped alleviate this quite a bit.

    Not sure about you, but I don't play this game so I can go out and solo all the time, I enjoy the social interaction and playing with real people, if I wanted to solo all the time, I would simply play a console game on single player.

    As I stated before, doubling the recast to 6 minutes would have been plenty to "resource" mana again, but over tripling it is making mana a scarcity.
  5. Robnie Augur

    As a raid geared necro who groups with raid geared wizards they generally ALWAYS keep up with me mana wise while doing superior dps in groups. Which is fine really, the point of this is it's a useless nerf.

    In fact at the start of rof I was being outdpsed and outlasted by a group wizard before the Claw nerf.
  6. Stubar Augur

    News flash! Focus paragon is absolute garbage. It's a stop gap AT BEST.

    Increase Mana by 388 per tick....GAME CHANGER! Especially when I cast Carbomate 1-2 times per tick at 1547 mana, plus my other 4 nukes 1260 mana/2361 mana/1783 mana/1161 mana. Making all the difference in the world!

    So really, what does FP do? 4/5th's of f--- all.
  7. Vivamort Augur


    Shadowside is Lich... it is just 94th level version of it. Pretty sure lich was mentioned in the numbers provided.

    Yeah maybe when I am grouping or soloing I will start memming mind strip... which also impacts my DPS just like harvest impacts a wizards. And wizards can harvest between pulls to minimize its impact... I need to use mind strip during combat.
  8. Paxman77 New Member

    I'm not a forum rat, and don't ever post. Mainly due to what I see in this thread - well thought out reasoning by the OP descends into a bunch of anecdotal back and forth that doesn't end up going anywhere. But, this nerf is bad enough that I will add my .02.

    SOE - if you are reading, I rolled a necro so that I could play with no downtime. I'm not interested in a game where I have to sit and stare at a screen doing nothing waiting for a bar to refill. I really don't care whether others have to do it or not, or if I am "intended" to have to stare at a screen, whether it is "fair" for me to have to stare at a screen. I'm just telling you that if you don't revert this change, you won't ever get another cent out of me since I have no interest in playing a game that requires me to stare at a screen and wait.
  9. Vivamort Augur

    Let's just admit that most of us do not really know how the different classes mana regen abilities interact with their performance.
    Let's also admit that it is always a bad idea to drag other classes into a comparison when trying to get something new, or when trying to fight off a nerf like this. I know I hate it when non-necro threads add info about necros, especially when it is wrong, opinion, or out of context.

    Please lend us your support non-necros. Do you agree this is a unneeded nerf for grouping necros? That it will push necros towards the bottom of the desired pool when looking to fill a dps position in a group?
  10. Annastasya Augur

    For the last 14 years whenever asked the question what is the most powerful overall class in Everquest? Taking into account raiding/grouping/soloing. Unequivocally the answer has always been Necromancer.

    In all that time whenever i have been able to get a Necro to join my group or been invited to group with a necro it takes exactly 5 minutes before i am wondering, why does this guy need the other 5 of us? He was killing at nearly the same rate by himself. When the other group members need a med break or afk for whatever reason they typically just continue to pull and kill at the same pace. "i'll just kite a few while you guys med." "Oh i killed all the ph's and the namer while you guys were afk." These are common phrases ive heard while grouped with a necro.

    i don't advocate sweeping nerfs like this one, and it's a tragedy what Sony has done to you guys concerning the Epic but ive never heard a necro ask for mana or a break because of mana issues. The Necromancer class has had it's share of issues like every other class, but ROFLstomping group content with abandon for the entirety of this game's history with or without support from other players couldnt have been expected to last forever. These are just my personal experiences however, your mileage may vary.
    Leerah and Crystilla like this.
  11. Marton Augur

    I played back then and I remember those times. It's nothing I want to experience again.

    This change will make playing necro in group / solo environment rather un-fun. In my personal opinion, DB should be left alone. It was here since Underfoot, it was already nerfed a few times. There is no need to drive people away from the game with changes like this.
    Miklo likes this.
  12. --Voodoo-- Augur

    Thing is, if the only mana regen you're using is Lich and DB, it's basically a 50% reduction in regen. So if you run out of mana in 15 minutes post-nerf, you were lasting 30 minutes before. With OOC it still only amounts to a few extra minutes of med time an hour. And some of that is bound to be time you'd be down anyway. Yeah, if you burn through all your mana in a few minutes it looks worse. But if that's the case you were already mostly dead anyway.

    The complaints here seem to be about how necros (or DoTs really) work (or don't) in fast-killing groups, and how your mana regen was masking that issue. Maybe something should be done to address that situation without impacting areas where necros work fine. Or maybe, like Art said earlier, we just accept that some classes can do things others can't. You want to be DPS in a fast, chain-pulling group, pick a class that's good at it.

    Bottom line, if the entirety of your game enjoyment is so intrisically linked to one ability, somebody did something wrong. Change was needed.
  13. Kylo Elder

    my main use to be a necro and I know what a necro can do
  14. TheOriginalShaard Lorekeeper

    I recall why I stopped memming this spell ~ "your xxx has not taken hold" because it was either blocked by something or everyone's buff slots were filled. And with the 6s cast time, usually cast after dps spells it often would not land on the target. It is one of those lines that are a good idea but the implementation leaves so many downsides that it ends up never getting memmed. And if I'm pulling then I am NOT going to be spending those six seconds casting it, I'm going to be out lining up the next mob....
  15. Miklo Elder

    Kylo, it wasnt what a necro is capable of, you missed the point.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Mind Wrack is not an effective way of mana regen. Its merely to supplement the group, not the necro. I dont have the numbers but iirc the mana required to cast this spell is about the same as the reward. The only time it would benefit a necromancer to cast it is through a gift of mana proc. Please do not include this spell in this arguement. Unless you want to talk about our only benefit to a group if this change goes live.
  16. Siddar Augur

    Necromancers and Shaman are meant to have the highest mana regeneration of all classes in the game. When this process finishes I have no doubt that will still be the case.

    Stated reason for the nerf to death bloom that being to mana limit raid necromancers ignores the fact that raiding necromancers still wont run out of mana. So if the goal is causing necromancers to become mana limited on raids is to be achieved then they have to do more then what they have.

    That means if you're not a shaman and your mana regeneration ends up higher then a necromancers you should be afraid because it wont stay that way for long. If you're a shaman you should note your mana regeneration wont be massively higher then necromancers, If you're a necromancer you should be expecting more nerfs to mana limit raid necromancers.

    So everyone with a mana bar should be afraid very afriad.
  17. Kylo Elder

    I agree with you. I can blow my mana pool in less than a min if it a mass chain pool. people don't know what mana management is
    Leerah likes this.
  18. Miklo Elder


    Ahh yes. You touch a bit on the underlining issue. Then for some odd reason, you run from it?

    There was an issue, instead of attempting to address or fix it, they gave necros DB and swift dots.That allowed necromancers to use their abilities in a fashion that was beneficial to a group. DB was/is so important to the group/solo necromancer.

    If this change goes live, there will be no more invites for necro's unless its a lesser group of people who can barely play their class. In which case, a necro cant be effective with a tank that cant do their job.

    A dps is a dps. If necros cant be dps in a group setting, what would you have them do?
  19. --Voodoo-- Augur

    Just made a necro on beta.

    Mind Strip is 622/tick for 6 ticks. 3732 mana. 4.6 sec cast, 60 recast, average mana cost around 1k. 45 mana per second or thereabouts.

    Blood Magic lasts for 3 minutes, 18 minute cooldown. So basically it gives 1/6th of whatever amount of mana you can use in 3 minutes.
  20. Miklo Elder

    Mind Strip doesnt work on all mobs. There are zones/camps where it doesnt work on anything. The duration isnt fixed, its not always the same. Blood Magic has a downside and cant always be used.

    Even if mind strip had a fixed duration, and there was no downside to blood magic, how does that have anything to do with the whole reason why death bloom is or isnt a needed ability? How does this change coincide with the reason for the change? Why now? Death Bloom does the same thing it did when it first came out ( minus a few changes here and there ), why this change and why now?

    It doesnt add up. Thats what you should be asking/arguing.
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