Monk DPS

I think you clearly need to be challenged by a monk with way less hstr and see what happens, the only problem is in alot of guilds they will never put 2 monks in 1 group so they would at least have the same adps(not all adps plays the same) to compare parses. Personally the difference in heroics isn't even that big to argue which is clearly the best, I could transfer my monk over to your guild and probably compete with worse gear and not much aa progression and other minor dps stuff and pull good numbers.

I already said exactly that in my first post Kaliko. I know heroics don't make much of difference anyway. How much damage we put out is mostly all up to skill / knowing the class well. This is true for all classes. What I was saying is that Heroic dex does not help with non-range melee dps, or at least so little that it's a joke compared Str.

At least I know how to read Kongfoo, I never said that I didn't know dex was "suppose" to up crit rate. Quite the opposite, but I am arguing how much it really adds if anything and if it's really better than heroic Str.

• Dex
  • Dexterity affects your chances for special melee abilities such as combat effects and critical hits. It increases your chances to gain points in most combat skills. It is also a factor in determining how much damage you do with throwing weapons and archery.
    
    Bard Only: High dexterity decreases the chance you will miss a note while playing a song.
    
    Tradeskills: If your dexterity is higher than your intelligence or wisdom, it determines how quickly you gain skill in Fletching and Make Poison.

• hDex
  • Increases endurance pool, endurance regen, and the maximum amount of endurance regen a character can have. Also increases damage done by ranged attacks, improves chance to successfully assassinate or headshot, and improves the chance to riposte, block, and parry incoming attacks.

I'm not seeing about Crit rate or proc rate with heroic dex, only with Base Dex. on top of that >

Heroic Dex - The boost is +.1% to Parry and Riposte rates (Block too most likely, but not shield block if agi isn't adding it), also the stat increase actually does something which is just above doing nothing. Your real dex stat is used as the base of determining your critical hit chance. It doesn't add a whole lot of additional dps in the grand scheme of things though, as the base is a very small portion of the overall chance. Each additional +1 normal dex is something on the order of a 0.0000000000023429% higher chance to crit per point. So as I said, it's better than doing nothing like an agility cap increase, but not by much. Benefits come in bursts every 25 points.

Are you seriously going to maintain the position that hDex doesnt increase crit chance by worthwhile amounts? What parses are you basing this off of? You asked me to prove it and my parses do just that. I only removed my type5's so there was no change in base Dexterity, but crit chance dropped by 12.5%.

Heroic Dexterity absolutely effects crit chance, and is worth stacking at least as high as your hStr if not completely focusing on hDex.

It depends on if the crit function uses FunctionalDex (capped stat + hDex) or not. Most people seem to assume they use the FunctionalDex (and archery/throwing does use FunctionalDex for determining the attack rating).

And for the defensive skills hDex influences Parry, Block, and Riposte. HAgi influences Dodge. Staff Block and Shield Block are entirely dictated by the AA/Spell bonuses. (based on dev quotes of the formulas used)

wait... really? compete with who?? kind of a bold statement, less gear less aa progression and saying you would maintain? Sort of a wonton statement saying you ll walk in the door there and monks there have their hands in their pockets. I m not even here talkin bout the str / dex arguement, but I do kind of take issue with the way that statement is proposed.

Why do you take issue? He didn't say he was going to rofl stomp them into oblivion. He said he could probably, which is key, compete with worse gear/aa progression and pull good numbers. Who knows, maybe he see Triton's parses and thinks their monks aren't performing as well as they should, I don't know.

I've seen a lot of mage parses in "Top End Guilds", and I know, not feel, that I could beat them in group gear and less AA's. I'm not naming a particular guild like he is, but my statement is I know for a fact I could beat them with less gear and AAs, while he is stating he could "probably" compete. Their statement, if they're a highly skilled player, doesn't seem unreasonable at all.

Enkel could beat my magician parses naked and without casting spells. Tis true!

my issue was, and perhaps I read it wrong and apologize for it if so, was that he could or anyone could just drum up a monk and hang with the top. i would take issue on that with any class that KNOWS their class, I did refer sir to skill leveled monks, not noobs cuz we all know there are those in every guild that perhaps dont hold their weight or try to. i am quite familiar with Triton parses so i am informed on that end. I dont see a group geared under aa d lacking progression monk hanging there but I do get your point bout your mage statement and just in general for those that arent trying hard enuff or performing to standard

I'm confident enough in my skills and have pulled extremely good numbers in both raid and group gear( my main monk is on FV so i'm able to test that, but I created a heroic monk a year ago on Xeg and it's just extremely hard to get him to where my main monk is progression/gear wise since no one wants to do it because of TLP). I enjoy darn near mastering classes in group gear and challenging raiders esp in groups they are surprised what group gear can do.

Some of the questions I have on the parses:
1) You are comparing Hdex vs non Hdex, but you are altering Hstr along the way. Could you replace the type 5 DEX with STR so the STR remains the same, would be less of a hit to DEX than you showed but would keep it from effecting 2 variables at once.

2) Were your attack scores the same both times? Again if you are comparing apples to apples you can't throw a pear into the pile and compare it with any meaning. If you are buffless for the HDEX test, could you add some +attack buffs to get you near what the attack score was before removing the dex to more accurately compare them.

3) Timing, were these both run the same length of time? The line I found most interesting is the Total Attempts. Does HDEX add in more melee rounds swings?


I think it was a good first run and I thank you for doing it so we have some data to use. Now if you could refine it a bit more, remove some more variables we could more accurately compare its validity. Based on the fewer swings, I would guess the non-dex parse didnt run as long so there might even be a greater margin between using and not using. I'd be curious to see the updated results to see which way it swings from Hdex to not using Hdex with all the other attack attributes the same.

I'm also really looking forward to the DEX vs STR monk parse once those results come in.

My parse isnt a comparison of hStr and hDex, its just to illustrate the effect hDex has on crit chance. The loss of other heroics should have zero impact on crit chance, so I'd say they prove the point.

There's really no point in my doing a hStr vs hDex comparison though as Zerkers have a higher base atk than other melee and as such will benefit from hStr much less than a Monk or Rogue would (not to say that hDex wont still be best for them).

Sarc hurry up and post you and Sav's results.

These 2 parses are only 5 minutes so won't exactly provide alot of information I suppose and were on a lvl 125 dummy with 1147 AC and only autoattack/speedfocus and self buffs in group gear entirely. But in the short time you can see there is more crits with higher hdex so it does seem to still affect melee and procs in a way.

Parse 1: 815 Hdex, 294 HSTR
Monk -vs- Combat Dummy Beza: -- DMG: 8115856 -- DPS: 24819 -- Scaled: 24819 -- Crush: 8062214 -- DirDmg: 53642 -- % dmg as normal: 78.4% -- % dmg as critical: 21.6% -- Non-crit rate: 87.7% -- crit rate: 12.3% -- Attempts: 1715 -- Hits: 1715 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 4732 -- Max hit: 14073 -- DMG to PC: 0

Parse2: 271 Hdex, 107 Hstr
Monk -vs- Combat Dummy Beza: -- DMG: 7660906 -- DPS: 25452 -- Scaled: 25452 -- Crush: 7619769 -- DirDmg: 41137 -- % dmg as normal: 82.5% -- % dmg as critical: 17.5% -- Non-crit rate: 90.4% -- crit rate: 9.6% -- Attempts: 1719 -- Hits: 1719 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 4456 -- Max hit: 14028 -- DMG to PC: 0

well kalik your parse is wrong some how. with alot more hdex/hstr you do less dps, can't be right.

the 2nd one is off by like 20s which might provide the slightly higher parse #

Did some quick parsing (1 hr each) for judging crit rate %. Seems I lost about 1% crit chance per 100 HDEX lost.

1393 - 22.6%
1246 - 21.1%
1103 - 19.7%

I just ran an 8 hour parse with 10 Courage sulstones, and now i've swapped them out with Deftness. To simply see autoattack dmg. Fists of Fury is the only thing going, using Curtaincaller 2HB.
My 1st 8HR parse with 4560 ATK, 1627 HSTR and 1372 HDEX on a lv 109 mob with 1319 AC (was not sure what to set this to, any input?).
My 2nd parse that is going now is 4372 ATK (-188), 1417 HSTR (-210) and 1582 HDEX (+210), for a 420 point swing.
Will post all detailed info later.

i'm not talking total dmg, i said DPS, damage over time, therefor the time amount doesn't matter.

When did they remove the ranged +dmg? I remember them eventually coming in and saying yeah, that +3 pre-crit damage on all attacks hDex was giving was meant to just be ranged. But I cannot recall them ever saying (or listing in patch notes) that they were removing the +dmg that ranged attacks got from it.

Plus, we are also the only pure melee class that does not get an innate crit ability, so when we got the AAs to be able to crit our crit rate started lower as well.

They were 5 minute parse, i.e. the dmg amount is going to be insanely sporadic. I could do a 5 minute parse right now and have 27k dps, and then do another 5 minute parse an hour from now wearing the exact same gear with the exact same buffs and end up with 24k dps, and then an hour after that do another 5 minute parse resulting in 30k dps.

The duration of the parse wasn't the point I was making. But yes, due to the short duration the posted parse is also invalid. Just pointing out the fact that he has to run them to the point where the dps actually looks like it makes sense, and as you are pointing out, it has to be much longer than 5 mins. But he should be able to look at that parse and see the dps is lower and opposite of what's expected and not even post that as an example since it is obviously invalid.

I just ran an 8 hour parse with 10 Courage sulstones, and now i've swapped them out with Deftness. To simply see autoattack dmg. Fists of Fury is the only thing going, using Curtaincaller 2HB.
My 1st 8HR parse with 4560 ATK, 1627 HSTR and 1372 HDEX on a lv 109 mob with 1319 AC (was not sure what to set this to, any input?).
My 2nd parse was only half the time ~4 hours. stats: 4372 ATK (-188), 1417 HSTR (-210) and 1582 HDEX (+210), for a 420 point swing.
For straight up auto attack dps, it seems that the STR build was slightly higher (100dps) but of course, no raid buffs and kicks. All data is for my 2hb unless stated dirdmg.