Discussion in 'Melee' started by SoroxDrinal, Feb 8, 2016.
i play with even str/dex. dex approximately 60 less than str since the guild uses 60 hdex tribute.
I know, I'm going to have to get savagers information from the parse and redo mine. I'm shooting for tonight it depends which adps classes I can find online.
Where's the dataSarc?!?!
Sarcogian begins to cast a spell <Feign Data>
Sarcogian's parse is much better than Savager's, and it is definitely due to in game itemization decisions!
Curious about this one...what are your targets you're hiting on, and how high AC does it have?
The heroic str route adds more atk, which is less beneficial on low AC targets.
Hate to tell ya guys but heroic dex was nerfed years ago. Seems like everyone somehow forgot about that. Not to mention, it's not heroic dex that gives you increased crit chance and proc rate or whatever. It's BASE dex that gives you those. On top of that, the increase of crit rate from BASE dex is so insanely small, even if you could stack +100000 dex, you still wouldn't see any difference in crit rate what so ever. The last time i saw the numbers on crit rate boost from dex was somewhere in the order of 0.00000000002478, or somewhere around that. Which is a total joke.
Heroic Str has 2 PROVEN dps increases. Not only does it raise Atk, but your also get +1 damage added to the end of calculation for every +10 Heroic Str. To each his own I guess, but I still laugh a little on the inside every time I see a Dex monk. Even if your doing Dex for it's defense boost, it's still a joke in the long run. Monks already have the best avoidance in game and heroic dex only adds a tiny bit in spurts of 25.
I am tempted to do some parse testing myself now that we actually can. The advent of type 5 slot should now allow us to add enough heroic Str / Dex that we may be able to actually see the difference now.
It was really quite funny when the dex nerfed happened. I remember it well. It was one the biggest doops the dev's pulled on everyone. It happened right before RoF was launched. Then when RoF launched, right after quietly nerfing it, they Devs pushed Dex like it was still a god stat. Stone of shard's landing, the charm aug, and many other good augs from that expansion all had Dex. Their were more Dex augs than ever before. Somehow, everyone bought it. Hook, line, and sinker. While Dex is still a good stat for tanks, as it fills in their avoidance, it's completely useless for melee dps now. Except maybe for rangers as they use Ranged melee semi often. Heroic dex does NOTHING for normal melee dps, only ranged. I'm telling ya) It did use to be a GOD stat years ago, it's not anymore.
Also, as Zunar mentioned, I'm curious to know the details of the parses. I'm not saying by any means you guys don't know how to parse accurately, but every single little thing needs to be thought of before doing such parses. Such as the test dummies AC, needs to be set to near the average of current mobs. All procs need to be taken off. That means no spider bite, no Grelleth proc buff, no epic, and no IoT ect. You both need to have exactly the same buffs on. No kicks, no nothing. Even the proc from Brell's Aug needs to be blocked. That is if your testing Str Vs Dex melee dps straight up. I'd still be interested in seeing the parse with all procs going as well(except spider's bite as it has counters), just to see if their really is any difference in proc rate. However, again you guys would need to make sure that one of you doesn't have any procs that the other person doesn't. Or it will throw the results off.
Getting true accurate parses these days is very hard because so many things are now Innate. Over the years, I've seen to many people doing parse testing very inaccurately because they don't think of everything before doing the parse. They just go to the dummy as start swinging. Their are so many variables now a days, as well as random luck, getting a truly accurate parse is nearly impossible. This is why when you go to parse anything, it's needs to be many hours of parsing to really see what's going on.
In the end, I'm not saying that a Dex monk can't out dps a Str monk. They surly can, it just depends on that players skill level and it all depends on what adps you have at the time also. I've seen plenty of Dex monks out dps Str monks. But this is likely due to skill level / ADPS, not your stats. Over the past 3 years though, on the AVERAGE, I see Str monks do more dps than dex monks. That's just my 2 cents on that, take it how you want. If I have some time down the road a ways, I'll try to buy a full set Dex augs and test this out myself, as I am very curious to what actually works. But being Str has 2 proven dps increases VS none of dex, I'm gonna stick with Str in the mean time.
And here is the patch notes to prove it ) That so many people seemed to have missed.
Personally I run all Hdex for the tanking/dps bonuses and clearly superior aug choices AC wise because i'm not always with a tank and end up moloing alot of content and i'm a firm believer in dead dps does no dps so I even use geo steelstone for survivability. But I do feel stacking hdex raises crit rates because I even augged my rogue out over 1k hdex and his assassinates(which are based off backstab crits) went up by a ton compared to when he was around 400~ hdex. And I compared previous raid parses and saw my crit rate was higher by about ~2-3% than the hstr rogue of equal caliber.
With modern mobs having much higher AC than most of EQ's history, I would suspect boosting your ATK will be even more important. That means melee damage should focus on str and range should focus on dex (dex is used in the attack calc for ranged attacks)
But as with many things, it's about a balance. You're going to want the defensive bonuses to make sure you survive random aggro you get, although, monks should still be FDing if they steal aggro. Just because you have the best survival out of melee DPS, doesn't mean you should be stealing aggro
You're greatly mistaken if you think hDex doesnt increase crit chance by noticeable amounts.
Every parse I've ever seen on Str VS dex parsing showed no noticeable amount at all. On both Crit rate and Proc rate. That's not to say your wrong, but show me this ironclad parse that includes every single little detail, including all buffs on your at the time, parse dummy AC, all adps buffs on you, How long it was, and how much Str vs Dex you had, ect.
I'm a Str monk, yet I proc more than Dex monks on average. Which goes against what we've always been told. Same goes for Crit rate. Even if your right, who's to say that super small increase in crits comes out to more dps than the 2 proven benefits from Str?
IDK I'm a str monk and I tank and molo just fine, kinda a wonton statement to make bout dex is the way to go to be able to tank and such, plenty of AC on str augs too. just my 2cp. ps....what Drop said. True story.
2-3%.... and he may be doing more dmg with less crit. I don't know rogues well tho, but as a monk, i've been going STR.
I hear this quote a lot. Usually from people who die a lot. Maybe for rogues it's more useful, but I have 30k less hp than many other raiders of various classes in my guild (I'm a monk), yet I die the least. There's a lot more you can control about not dying than minimal differences in augs. I too shoot for high AC, but if it has no good H stats on it, it'll probably be replaced. I prefer to maximize dps. But I'm also able to tank TBM decently well, and previous xpacs I can molo easily, with mostly group gear.
But in the end, it probably doesn't matter all that much. I'm mostly STR, with a few dex augs, but about all of my type 5's are STR.
Heroic Dex does help with Decap, Assin., ect from what I've seen, but not normal melee crits like many say. Being monks do not have a Decap type ability, makes it pretty useless to us. Monk surviveability comes from our already high avoidance and quick reactions with FD, Mend, Earthforce, ect. We don't need Dex to stay alive, that's for sure. Which again, makes it double useless
parse 1: no buffs, just autoattack, all hDex type5's (632 hDex in type5s)
parse 2: no buffs, just autoattack, no type 5's (632 hDex and 224 hStr lost)
69.8% to 57.3% or a 12.5% loss in crit chance.
Now thats not to say that hStr isnt still beneficial to melee (probably Monk/Rogue more so than Zerkers), but its flat out wrong to say that hDex doesnt increase crit chance and thus effect/boost melee dps. I'm very curious how Sav + Sarc's parses turn out as I imagine Sarc will have an edge in crit chance with Sav possibly having an edge in max hit frequency as well as avg hit, but assuming the parses are done with full raid buffs/adps the atk provided by hStr is most likely redundant/minor compared to more crit chance.
Lol that Dropfast didn't even know hdex increases crit chance and argues against it.
This is because Dex + hDex both increase Assassinate (Ranger Headshot and Zerker Decapitate) rates by like 1% every 25 or 35 points that you gain in it (Dex is one, hDex is other)
Well good guy Dzarn used current PC ATK values to retune mob AC values . Hopefully it will be kept in mind of this and not go into some dumb territory like original TDS had
Especially since Monks have like the lowest Crit rate of the Melee (no Discs or Activated AA to boost Crit rate)
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