Just want to clear some things up here because you are either misremembering or don't have the full story on afew things. Our Valiant Deflection is supposed to give us AE aggro (see the hate mod on the heal component). And keep in mind before Beta even launched it took some devoted people to convince Aristo to even upgrade the spell (he was going to give us Protective upgrade fyi) Our full burn is/was/always will be terrible for aggro since it involves IJ, what you are referencing I THINK was the disruptive persecution AA giving more hate than FOD, which was a bug.
If Valiant Deflection line is supposed to be AE then thats the first time I heard it. I remember specifically complaining in the BETA chat when I first read about the original paladin spell in comparison to the far superior SK version, Deceitful Deflection which is very clearly AE and was told that the devs were happy with the way paladin ae agro works. Not sure where youre getting that paladin version is supposed to be AE, here are the spell descriptions Valiant Defense (pal version) You shout valiantly at your target, gaining their attention and healing their current target. Deceitful Deflection (sk version) With a mighty shout, you draw the attention of all creatures surrounding you, damaging them for 4542 hit points and healing you for a maximum of @3 hit points per target. I have always been of the stance that Sk's should be the kings of AE agro, and Paladins the kings of single target. Warriors should be extremely good at both, but not as good at ae as an sk, or as good at single target as a paladin. That being said, the SK Deceitful Deflection is hands down better than the paladin version Valiant Defense. I think the recast on Deceitful should be twice as long, and the hate mod and heal on Valiant should be doubled to put the two spells more in balance. When I said: It has nothing to do with going full burn. I mean that previously if you were using a 2hander while tanking in an exp group, popped Pureforge and Valorous Rage (prenerf) and spamming FOD instead of Disruptive Persecution, while also not hitting Inquisitors Judgement, then there was potential to do enough dps agro to keep heavy dps melee classes off agro. This has been negatively affected by recent nerfs to paladin dps, and the silly changes to dps alliance spells agro calculation. This also translates to raids. I find it much easier to actually gain and keep agro on a trash mob in raids if I am going offensive. Not sure why your experience is so different.
I'll assume you know hate mods on heals work http://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=50075 Look at the hate mod field for me, and tell me what you see.
If you think that the 7124 hate mod should be AE, I see no basis to support that. If anything, I would assume the 7124 is supposed to be tied to the initial cast, not the heal component and that it is a mistake in the spell details. Just like its represented in this link. http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=40080&source=Test
That's valiant deflection not defense, and the values on defense are 10k base and 7k for the heal, if it was what you are saying the values would be the same.
I think you lost me man. Valiant Defense is just the level 105 upgrade to Valiant Deflection from level 98. The heal was nearly doubled, but the hate was only slightly. Its one of my favorite spells dont get me wrong, I hit it every 6 seconds whether I am tanking or not for the HOTT heal, but comparing it to the SK version, it is a firecracker next to a bazooka.
So, because Lucy is terrible and terribly out of date, it doesn't represent the relevant information unless you click through to Raw Data. Valiant Defense has 1: Increase Hate by 10117 in the spell effect, but no mod on the spell itself Check out the sweet Hate Mod: +7124 that goes with 1: Increase Current HP by 10696 on Valiant Healing III: http://www.raidloot.com/Spells.aspx?name=valiant&view=Table&class=Paladin . The intention with a hate mod on a heal is to boost how much hate it generates in any mob that cares about your healing, on top of the agro the healing itself generates which is fairly small these days, and inconsistent besides
Again there is no place in the spell description that it says anything about gaining ae agro. Chaosflux said previously: What do you have to support the claim that a bug is preventing the hate mod on the heal? If it is indeed supposed to produce a small amount of ae hate from the heal, that would be great but there is no real evidence to support that. If it is supposed to generate ae hate, why isnt it just a copy of the sk version? Unfortunately I think its far more likely to be a mistake in the spell data. I am also leery of any effort to change the way heals generate hate, or we could be back to producing unbelievable amounts of hate when we drop a twincast splash heal for over 3 million hps of healing.
Because in TDS when Valiant was tested to verify it worked. It worked, the old valiant was just such minimal aggro it was hardly worth noting. Regardless of how you feel about hate from heals, Valiant isn't an isolated incident as far as mods go, and since it is there it should be fixed to work correctly. Also that wouldn't happen again, Splash has an override. Also how healing aggro works to generate hate was completely changed in HOT. So we are free to get Hate mods or even overrides on our heals with impunity if the devs so chose and it wouldn't matter.
I think it is most likely that if there is any fix, it will be to remove the part that says anything about 7k hate on the heal. We'll see though!
Other than that, I agree that Beacon and Hallowed need to have their numbers and duration compressed into max of 2 or 3 ticks, and should be able to stack with one another if you really need to put the hammer down. Beacon was once very strong, then it got nerfed to nothing, and then we had to pay more AA to get it back to a usable but weaker than original version. This pisses me off so much.
Btw Warrior DPS needs to be nerfed yet again, they basically just took the sprinkles off our cake but left the cake!
There is supposed to be an extra 7k hate to the heal, which would cause it to be AE as that's how heal aggro works (technically it affects everyone on the hate list, not a true AE, but you get the point). How is it possible as a paladin, who is also a guild leader of a high end raiding guild, does not understand this? I'm simply baffled. Go to eqresource, type in Valiant Defense RK. III in the search bar. Click on Valiant Defense, click on Valiant Healing. There is a hate mod directly tied to the HEAL portion of the spell. Not the aggro portion, but the HEAL portion. This heal has extra hate tied to it so it should, theoretically, be giving 7k AE aggro. Valiant Healing
As a personal opinion, which could certainly be wrong. I think the hate mod was "supposed" to be applied to the target of the spell (mob its cast on) and the 7k hate transferred to the heal recipient. But I don't think the dev crew meant for it to be a 7k AE agro spell for Pally, cause of how heal agro works. This is probably why it is broke atm, they may not know how to fix it to do what they want.
I will absolutely buy that. But if they can't make it work that way, and font want it producing AE then throw the lost hate onto tthe base.
The heal is hard capped and the hate value is pretty small. I want to say it's like ~3k base hate and a ~7k heal (if it crits) off the top of my head (per mob hit, obviously). It's solid, but "Tremendous" is not the adjective I'd use. It's absolutely a great ability, but it doesn't do a massive amount of either healing or hate outside of swarm situations with a *lot* of mobs. The main benefit is it's fast cast time and fast recast. So.... Was the following just lip service, then? The biggest strength of the SK DD line is that it's virtually always up to cast. I realize for a class starved for AE aggro it might look overly strong in comparison, but calling to nerf it by doubling its recast because your classes' version of a similar ability is poor isn't particularly constructive, not to mention directly conflicting with the above quote. TL;DR - If yours needs improving, request that, and vaya con dios. But lay off our Kool Aid, yo!
Wrong. You have a single target hate on Valiant Defense, and a hate mod on the heal component. Why do people not use spell parsers? [50072/10650] Valiant Defense Rk. III Classes: PAL/105 Skill: Alteration Mana: 1527 Target: Single Range: 200' Resist: Magic -50 Focusable: Yes Reflectable: No Casting: 0.5s, Recast: 6s, Timer: 17, Rest: 1.5s 1: Increase Hate by 10117 2: Cast: Valiant Healing III Text: Your rage is redirected. You shout valiantly at your target, gaining their attention and healing their current target. [50075] Valiant Healing III Mana: 10 Target: Targets Target Range: 300' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Hate Mod: +7124 1: Increase Current HP by 10696 Text: A valiant word restores your spirit. Heals your target's target for up to @1 hit points. Correct.
