This is how you know an argument's been won … by the other guy. Thread's done. Collect your coats on the way out, folks, and don't forget to tip the waitstaff. We'll have another show next weekend
You can selectively edit any quotes you want. Anyone can see the actual paragraph I typed and interpret the entire thing exactly as I meant it. I suppose next youre going to tell us you were the star quarterback in highschool and dated the head cheerleader. A has been is a has been. When I have asked about you it was because to my knowledge you hadnt played in years, but you still troll these forums with your opinions like a 40 year old guy at the highschool party wearing his lettermans jacket. 1. So now youre saying SKs would have to not use one of their abilities for paladins to have a fighting chance on a single target. Got it. 2. You must not watch twitch or talk to your SK peers. Tons of SKs are tanking all the adds on Queen and Atrebes Vault. That you havent seen it doesnt make it untrue. I havent been to Tokyo, but I know it exists. 3. I guess on your server the SKs suck and the paladins are elite? Your servers observations of the 2 knight classes varies from all the others? Agree to disagree I guess.
1. Why are you fighting with other tanks for agro? You shouldn't your just wasting resources. all harmonious are broken. IF you put an pally on one mob and an sk on another, receiving the same heals and both have harmonious, there is a 5k per proc difference in agro, the sk should not rip the agro off the pally if the pally isn't slacking. 2. I have been to tokyo I was talking about warcasters, their ae eats tanks if you are not lucky. Also, why would you want to take all the adds, yes it can be done, but with risks that are unnecessary. Your making up stupid arguments to justify something in your head, something I dont care to figure out. 3. I suck and I am ok with it, its why I am the class leader, and tank more than any of the pallies in my guild. I could go on, but oh, my pallies are doing fine still. But they still suck, cause well, pallies suck! I also wouldn't attribute your opinion to all guilds on all servers, not many pallies are here complaining.
If the paladin is not using the best aggro tool at his disposal, he will have aggro problem. Unless it has changed, Maedhros, how can you complain about aggro when you advocated not using the 2 crush and use stuns instead that produce way less hate ? Are you constantly spamming FoD too ? Paladins in my guild have np to keep aggro of DPS burning. Yes DPS climb the aggro meter faster than the other 2 tank classes, but they can still hold it. For the Queen raid, our RL has asked to stop the use of the AE Harmonious since a long time now. When for the first queen raids SK were using their harmonious AE, I, as a warrior, had the hardest time to be able to keep aggro on the single captain I was tanking, and if this captain was respawning and aggro had to start over, it was a nightmare. Even using the best single target aggro warrior tools. Even in other raids like Atrebe Vault or Atrebe Sathir raids for example with adds at start to tank, they know that if they use it others tanks won't be able to grab some mob of them and they will splat in no time. Adds hit hard. As for warrior, I repeat it all the time, but for 99 % of content there is no reason for the warrior to not use his single Harmonious which has a heal attached to it instead of the AE Harmonious.
This thread should be over. It's the same posts over and over again. Do paladins suck? No. Are they as strong comparatively to previous expansions? No, but some of the major reasons why are badly tuned harmonious abilities. It's not because Paladins all of a sudden just became the suck.
How is it even possible that you think someone can be a has been in a video game. You got me I don't raid. I actually leveled up another paladin to 105 with another 16k aa mostly soloing because time does not permit raiding or grouping for that matter. You have quite the inferiority complex with how often you try to validate your opinion in the game by boasting about your leet magelo. No one cares what your gear level is unless the question specifically relates to gear dependency for a given situation. Maybe if you had ever been in a number one guild you could finally stop trying to impress people with your Magelo. But I doubt it. You fail to comprehend game mechanics and despite your uber gear seem to think paladins "stink". I'm pretty sure it is just user error and that you actually suck and not the class. I find our skill set to be appropriate in current content minus small details like stagnated aggro and base value of heals. So yes I play when I have time. I did date cheerleaders (plural) I ran track in college and I'm self aware enough to know that no one cares. Except for people who think things like dating cheerleaders was ever relevant. I'm sorry you got bullied in grade school. It will be ok your mediocrity at a video game will not determine your self worth. maybe everquest just isn't your game, I know let's have a spelling contest.
I agree Agro (ae or single target) should never be outside of the tank's control in any situation .. As a warrior I must in fact use your quote to inform you. Paladins are lesser tanks. Hence your obviously worse at it.. Warriors in Reckless Assension have no issues what so ever with alliances.
Wow man, you used to raid in the top guild. Congrats on your past achievements! You no longer raid, and therefore lack the experience necessary to comment on the state on paladins on current content in raids. You solo a level 105 group geared paladin, but I assume you have occasionally grouped once or twice, so we can safely say your knowledge of the current state of the group game for a paladin is limited at best. I suppose if all you do is solo, you wouldnt realize how bad the agro situation was would you? Your guesses and theories are based on old, outdated raid knowledge or limited group/solo experience in current EQ and make your current opinions worth very little to this conversation. When you were once a knowledgeable, experienced, and highly respected paladin but have moved on due to real life stuff, yet still try to cling to some semblance of that prior level of respect long after you have ceased to be current and relevant, thats the definition of a has been. I appreciate your efforts on the IRC chats and getting some solid changes to the class in years past, but thats not you anymore bud. If you were in there on the current raids and group situations you would see what the balance of the 3 tank classes really is today. In a vacuum, I can still do my job. The class is the worst its been in over a decade due to years of agro stagnation with only 1 minor upgraded new spell because of no new level increase. Meanwhile the dps and agro generation of other classes and game mechanics have advanced at a fast clip and current content expects a tank to acquire and maintain agro on many mobs at a time, and paladins do stink at that. So if my primary role is to tank, but its a struggle to acquire and maintain agro on multiple mobs as current game mechanics require, then a paladin stinks at their primary role, thus stinks. Keep in mind that the changes to alliance fulmination agro generation only took place last week, but Dzarn did post that it was an unintended side affect that will not be fixed til the next full patch, I assume middle of next month. Instances were bugged out for most of this week so its reasonable to assume you havent had much chance to see the raid content since the change, but I assure you its a challenge for even the better tanks to keep an eye on the alliance agro and especially monks now til it gets fixed.
Actually we have raided multiple days since .. Alliance damage became tied to players. (thus the aggro generation as well) So yes again, We have no issues with it via casters nor any other class alliance in Reckless Ascension.
Alliance listed damage has been tied to players now longer .. then the instances been fubared. So .. I dunno why you think it was any other way?
There's a lot of us that wish sk/war harmonious, and maybe even wade, was changed. Everything I say here is from my experiences in raids, and not about the group game. In the group game, Shadow knights (especially raid geared ones) have been gods for a long time, though i would say all tanks are gods right now. The one nice thing about harmonious for SK's is that it has put us back at the top for ae aggro with warriors. Perhaps some will disagree, but i believe most of us have traditionally thought of the SK as the ae aggro tank & kiter, the warrior as the boss tank, and the paladin as a single target tank that can heal others, atleast these to be the primary strengths of these classes. Warriors in many situations made better kiters and ae aggroers than sk's for a while until harmonious. Until Knight stances, in many situations they made better add tanks as well, our strength was however amplified in places with lighter heal teams, where a good knight self healing could compensate where a warrior could not. I remember the days when warriors needed time to build aggro on single targets, let alone multiples. Harmonious solved a problem for sk's, but in a way that disadvantages paladins. It's too much, it's a toggle-able 'everything's mine' button that nanna can use. They could give paladins half of our aa agro abilities and we would still easily out-agro them with harmonious running. That is the issue that needs to be addressed, if we consider harmonious to be a problem. I've noticed a few times on these threads that when it comes to paladin aggro, some people are talking about aggro abilities without regards to harmonious, while others talk back with regards to harmonious, as if while talking to each other, they are both looking through a different lens, and understandably think each other to be . Without harmonious for either party, and with an SK spamming deceitful deflection for the purpose of healing himself and covering loose mobs, a good paladin will still have aggro on his target. Without harmonious, if an SK wants everything, you will see Distasteful Bargain, Deceitful, the 3 instant cast aa's and maybe even 2-3 spells from the disgust line. A forceful rejuvenation after the initial distasteful to cast it twice back to back, or maybe even to cast that + the disgust line twice. I suspect a good paladin can still have a single target under such conditions without the use of abilities such as unflinching, but this I don't know for certain. If they do not, then taunting a mob after those initial distasteful casts and THEN firing your single target stuff will ensure a good paladin has aggro. I don't think that's the debate though for the paladins that want to be able to still participate on add piles, it's harmonious/wade. I suggest creating a thread about harmonious or passive aggro, as it has come up in multiple threads now. There is already a thread on SK harmonious a few pages in on the class discussions, but the problem with talking there is that it suggests we have no grievances with the warrior's harmonious as well. While i 'think' most of the experienced shadow knights on these threads dislike harmonious, i doubt they would all be happy with seeing it changed/removed if it meant that the warriors harmonious was left alone, that would just put us in the same boat as paladins. This is why i recommend creating a new thread to discuss it.
What ? Before Harmonious wars had better AE aggro than SK ? Wars have 1 AE disc Stormstrike Blade that has a 45 sec refresh time, Wade Into Battle who is not a "reliable" tool given the conditions that need to happen to make it work with a 5 min refresh. Ah we have an ability that do 2 k aggro on 3 target max too, 1 min refresh, Roar of Challenge. Compared to the plethora of SK AE aggro tools like Distasteful Bargain 30 sec recast time, Disgust 30 sec recast time, Explosion of Spite and Hatred 45 sec recast time, Deceiful Deflection 6,5 sec recast time This is just a no brainer on who had the best AE aggro. Note that I don't have a problem with it, SK should be the best AE aggroer with no contest, but suggesting you weren't before Harmonious is not understandable. I am not against AE Harmonious because it's a tool that you can choose to not use if it puts annoyance, like it does in raids. But if they choose to remove the war and SK AE ones, I will still be ok because I use my single target harmonious 99 % of the times.
OK, so all raid guilds have seen a change on aggro since the patch, bar Reckless Ascension. How do you explain it ?
I suspect if they get rid of ae harmonious, all of them would be gone, especially considering that sk get only the one.
SK's were better on constant spawns of mobs trickling in, because of the number of spells and abilities we have that can pulse an AE with decent re-use timers. But warriors were better at instantly AE aggroing one fresh pile of mobs and kiting them if they hit all of their abilities. For warriors it was a one or two time deal, they had cooldowns as you mentioned
