I also LOL'd at the first 3 words of Maedhros response - Yes paladins stink Not accurate and doesn't help constructively improve anything Paladin.
I personally prefer the paladin valiant, especially if it were working correctly. There is no situation where it's not beneficial to cast outside of burn mode. The sk one has some glaring pitfalls.
To the original poster, I generally don't agree with the way Maedhros words things but he is definitely correct in the assertion that we have been sitting mostly in stagnation and nerfs for expansions. Watch the advice you take from forum topics such as this, you'll find more than half the folks that jump on these threads are Shadowknights that always tend to give extremely sketchy advice and add a bunch of the LOL/troll type posts. Pertaining to if Paladins "stink", we are currently sitting in the worst aggro generation spot we've ever been in throughout the 18 year lifespan of Everquest(raid and group game). Heal wise, due to new mechanisms of Priest heals triggering raid wide AE heals every time they cast a single heal via their Harmonious type abilities, among other things, our overall healing output potential is weaker than it's ever been in 18 years(raid wise). There are many other out of the ordinary things that have transpired in recent times, such as Shadowknights getting a unique defensive AA which pushed us to clear 3rd vs tanking challenging bosses/new content(raid). For what it's worth, I play a highend raid Pal-War-SK weekly. I have the most "fun" on my Paladin still by a fair margin. Much of that stems from flexibility the healing aspects of class offers and the other portion comes from the level of focus I must apply in order to do worst aggro generation than my SK/War does while partially AFK or half sleeping
http://eqshadowknight.net/showthread.php?t=8986 -------- Just because you don't have a firm grasp on basic aggro generation Xanathol, which this post from you firmly illustrates, does not mean we're all in the same boat. FYI, as I explained to you in past, whenever an SK taps it produces aggro, dps and healing. These very basic things you sadly have not learned and for a supposed math person I find it extremely suspect(aka you purposely are playing dumb I hope for your sake). You have SK's mains I don't even like nor like me agree with these simple forms of logic
Kamea went to different forums and name dropped Shiftie consistently as well as on here, even when he didn't post. Xanathol goes on completely different forums and name drops or references me. There are similarities but I think Kamea hated Shiftie IRL. I'm pretty sure Xanathol and I have a legitimate forumance which takes 2nd place only for the love I have for P2aa . Hard to take it too serious, even the Kameas and Battleblades have unfortunately disappeared. You always know the same handful or so of Wars/SK's/Pals that care enough to atleast voice their opinions of in game balance. I can respect that, especially at this point in EQ's life. Even as suspect/bias/ignorant I find some of it to be. #Xandomaffair
Agree with Triconix. From a quick scan, it appears the purpose of posting on other websites is mainly to avoid knowledgeable criticism.
Now that's funny... I can't imagine why someone would discuss topics elsewhere instead of a place littered with such insightfulness as "Paladin aggro and healing is the worst it has ever been in 18 years!", "our harmonious sucks so we need significant increases to our single target aggro!", or the random board troll... But yeah, let's keep the discussion here where math hurt's people's head and some want to continue to talk about that great lifetap aggro... lol.
Discussing lifetap aggro(you know, those spells that are actually used consistently), is far more intelligent than naming spell sets and abilities that are hardly used under any circumstance(push stuns that lock out main aggro abilities lol). As I explained to you in the past, if a Paladin uses a ToT heal such as Proclamation or a yellow heal such as Grief/Sorrow, nearly "zero" aggro and zero dps is produced. When an SK uses a tap in same situations, for that "heal" only as you enjoy calling it lol, dps, aggro and a heal is produced. The fact that you are acting puzzled as to how SK aggro greatly outpaces Paladins, for a plethora of reasons, without even factoring in Harmonius, is beyond hilarious. Pre Harmonius, I hardly ever even memed "aggro" spells on my Shadow in group environment, regardless of whatever end game group I was in. After Harmonius, it happens even less. With state of Shadowknight current toolkit and dot improvements being rolled out soon most likely which will give more crazy aggro capabilities when you merely cast "dps" spells, the fact that you think Paladins don't need significant single target aggro boosts shows your level of bias yet again(especially when you already realize asking for more AE aggro is probably unwise with dev stance on things). Keep it up on different forums with your strange spell sets and supposed elite math skills that others can't possibly comprehend though
Harmonious is broken, in all it's forms. Good idea in theory, but overpowered and rife with side effects. I love when I'm driving around with a healer merc looking around for targets and it decides to randomly heal me and pull for me.
I guess I will have to explain it a bit more clearly for you since perhaps we have a language barrier here. 1. The Valiant Defense spell does not produce any AE affects. 2. Nowhere in the spell description does it say it should, unlike the SK version which plainly spells out that it does. 3. I asked Chaosflux where he is getting the idea that it should AE and his only response if that in the raw spelldata it lists the hate override on the heal component of the spell. My response is that if it doesnt say it should AE on the spell description, and it doesnt actually AE in REALITY, then its most likely an error on the spell data. Sorry for your bafflement, perhaps you should try harder next time. Thanks Sindaiann, it pleases me to have a fan club. The title of the post is "do paladins stink in current EQ?" Which I answered. I think we can assume that I dont know anywhere near as much about the current aspect of chanter balance in the game as you do, just as I assure you that you do not understand the current level of balance for paladins as well as I do. Currently paladins stink. Our single target agro is weak, our AE agro is worse. Our healing is ok but doesnt generate squat for agro, unlike many of the SK equivalents. Our dps was just nerfed. I can stand and tank things fine, so long as other dps classes take it easy with their agro. I am not calling for a nerf, just stating what I think would bring the 2 spells into balance. If your spell does everything my spell does, but it hits all mobs while mine only hits one? Why do they share the same recast timer?
I am starting to really wonder about where your motivations lie. Name me one realistic situation in EQ where the paladin version is better than the SK with all its "glaring pitfalls". I assume you mean that it can break mez or pull agro on mobs that, lets be real here, the paladins are supposed to be tanking. In reality the sks can tank the mobs that you are worried about mezzing just fine, along with the mobs the paladins couldnt keep agro on. Paladin Valiant Defense is one of our best spells, but it is hands down, no contest, weaker than the sk variant. The paladin valiant defense does not do ae agro bud, no matter what you read in the spell data. If a dev reads all this and says "hey guys there was a mistake with the spell, and we have fixed the hate override on the heal component" that would be great, but in its current form, the sk version wins without question.
What you mean you all don't use Xan's completely useless spell set to justify Agro is just fine and SK are lagging way behind? How dare you question his intent over there he is an Administrator there you know. I really liked Xan's last post in that thread, so typical.
First, you continue to look at the wrong spell. Look at Valiant HEALING, not Valiant DEFENSE. Maybe then you'll start to understand. Currently, you're failing to understand basic aggro mechanics in regards to healing spells. Healing spells add aggro to every single mob on the aggro list. If there is a 7k hate mod attached to that heal, it's pretty darn obvious that as long as multiple mobs are currently aggroed by the paladin, it should be doing 7k hate to each mob. It's not a true AE, more like a pseudo AE, but it still should theoretically have an effect on multiple mobs aggro levels. You see that nice little hate mod on Valiant Healing? Yeah, the heal has an attached 7k hate. If it's supposed to function like all heals in the entire game, that heal should be doing 7k hate to every mob currently on your hate list. Of course the hate mod attached to the heal isn't going to say "draws attention to all creatures surrounding you." That's because that's not how heal aggro works. It works how I just explained it. Literally every person with healing spells knows how healing aggro works, why don't you, a guild leader of a raiding guild? Now, there was some possible reasons given by other people (not you) that could explain why the aggro isn't working the way it should.
Omg.... That post is truly amazing! I love how it's not accurate at all, always wonderful to find out I could be much worse at this game. Thank you for sharing this!
