Josh's numbers aren't wrong. That's how % based hate gains work, it's ridiculous. Yes there are devs they are not infallible, we as players of the class in question are asking tthem to take a look at our harmonious, the stun component which is the reason the per proc hate is lower is detrimental and undesired by the player base and also that lower Hate value because of the stun is also detrimental and undesired. Your attempts to stifle the truth though are good for a laugh.
Most of us are complaining about the ae hate abilities that require no spamming (or active input) at all. Hit your button once every few minutes and gg brosefs. That's poor, poor design, to say the least.
The Harmonius abilities are equally concerning for multiple aspects. If Aristo/Developers decide they must absolutely remain in game for whatever reason, then the hate values need to be addressed as Josh's numbers clearly illustrate. The other concern is why would any tank in game want healers controlling their aggro except to be lazy and why do Devs think this is healthy direction for game to go in(if it indeed wasn't a complete oversight).
One mob doesn't support 48 charges, most of the mobs die in 30s-1 min, which is 5 charges max used. This is why these numbers are stupid. I stand corrected, but as you decided to resort to some personal attack. The one who is good for a laugh is you, writing firstly that tank assignement is a thing from the past which shows you have 0 clue on actual EoK raiding, and secondly reading some theory numbers without checking how long most mobs last.
The warrior single target harmonious has no reason to be adressed. it doesn't warn a paladin to single target aggro tank his mob.
Only he is not and it's not. It may have escaped your notice, but most talk is about AE Harmonious, while the OP used single Harmonious for his illustration. So p2aa is correct when he says this thread is about single-target Harmonious. He is further correct in pointing out that fights per mob only last that long. So one HP-duration is spread out over many mobs. Each mob starts with a clean slate, agro-wise - there is no carry-over of agro. So his conclusion is also correct: Harmonious Precision is not an issue. At all. IF you want to count beans then yes one could complain about the fact that part of a warriors agro depends on other player's actions rather his own. Precision is not a real problem - the "on/off" choice a player makes is enough for that. With how agro behaves in EoK, we're even going over to not using in some (raid) events. In groups, i rarely use either - it is simply not needed (most of the time). The complaints are about the AE-Agro of both warriors and shadowknights. Rightly so, from a paladin's perspective. And also from other tank's perspectives, since agro behaves badly and is beyond the tank's control. If you use AE Harmony in EoK T2.3 (just to give an example), you are dead that much quicker. In EoK T3.2, AE agro does not play that much of a role, simply because if mobs last long enough for it to take much effect, you are in serious trouble anyways. And the Add tanks will want to agro ONE, not all of the adds that can be up. I am missing my warrior's agro tools on my paladin, for sure. And i do not know a paladin well enough yet to compensate (or judge if it's possible). But as was pointed out: Not all tools are to be used all the time. If your fellow shadowknight does, let him die (and even the most thick-headed will learn in time). If he does use it in group and live, even excel perhaps, i for one go into DPS mode and am happy i can slack. As a warrior, i only fight for agro on MY single mob (except if it's a wipe and i have to fort-AE-tank to buy the time for that TL). And i click off HP when it's time for the next tank to take over. (yes that is a bother, and i'd wish for another solution) If someone insists on out-tanking me when it's not his time to do so, i let him. That is how i personally deal with it, your mileage may vary. In all, i do not have many problems with either harmonious. But yes, i have had paladins (inadvertently) pull (AE)agro by their procs in raids as they got their new EoK weapon, go figure. I think some people just complain too much and adjust too little.
I'm not really sure what point you're attempting to make Zhaunil. You say your main is a Warrior. You then go on to highlight that on this main, a Warrior, aggro is so stellar you rarely ever use single or AE Harmonius in group game. You then go on to talk about how it's unwise to use AE Harmonius in a few end game raid events which vast majority of EQ population doesn't do(conveniently, zero mention of the other 99% percent of game). You also highlight how you miss your Warriors aggro when you play Paladin which is highly intriguing because you hardly ever even use your Warriors Harmonius by own admission......You then end it on we're complainers even though you actually highlighted our points accidentally. You're aggro is perfectly fine without a healer producing the majority of it for you. AE or Single
Which makes me sad. Harmonious is pretty amazing for aggro as long as I'm being healed. But I would much prefer my button press caused that aggro rather than the healers button press. Precision has been fun in old content though where the heal merc sometimes pulls a mob I'm only looking at.
Paladin single target aggro is fine too for 95 % of the times. The 5 % time when a good DPS burns too fast nothing warns you to ask for more hate on your existing target abilities.
The weirdest thing about this whole thread so far is the fact that several people have suggested that my point was only about harmonious precision and not what the title of the post is about, 4% aggro, this should not be on anything that can proc so frequently. Harmonious precision is just what i used for the numbers. if you want I'll do the numbers for the other ones but they will be similar. I'm pretty sure that 4% can break aggro too. I'm not sure what is going on because i haven't tested it in a controlled environment. But you can see when somebody over aggros weird stuff starts to happen. When you taunt off of this person they don't go to 99%, they drop to 1%. it's very weird. Could just be a bug with the aggro meter, I'm not sure, but aggro gets real screwy when somebody gets too much of it. So, I don't like the harmoniouses at all but either the 4% needs to be given to paladins (bad choice) or it needs to be removed entirely. I don't even know why a warrior would complain about this change, theirs is still by far the best at aggro generation and still crazy powerful. The second thing i would say is the paladin one needs to be changed to a hate mod instead of spa 92. Why is ours the only one where the hate can be resisted? that was just a rude move by a dev.
Knights received this expansion 1 Harmonious spell and 1 Alliance spell. Warriors received 2 Harmonious spells. If you remove all the harmonious of this game, who is going to get screwed the most ? Stop thinking people are naive to not understand that if harmonious dissapear, paladins will loose nothing, SK will loose a bit, and warriors will loose the most by a big margin (warriors AE aggro will suffer more than SK if the 2 AE Harmonious are removed). The 12 k heal firing on the harmonious proc is a nice small boost too for warrior who doesn't have any self healing ability,
Its a tool, like a hammer. If I'm using my hammer to pound in nails it works great but if I try to use my hammer to pound in candles on a birthday cake its gonna make a mess! I'm not gonna say hammers need to be changed because of this, but I would suggest a change in the use of your hammer. If it is becoming an issue in a raid environment that is causing chaos, how about, like every other tool we're givin, give some thought with its use. I wouldn't say that people shouldn't be allowed to have hammers though. We're all given hammers in EQ, my mage could twincast beam spam on a pull and snatch agro away from everybody in a rather unruly fashion, I don't cuz I know how and when to use my hammer. I could take any one of my toons with proc discs give them duel wielding rune weapons and just tralalalala spam runes at the most inappropriate time and go weeee weeee weeeeee agro all over the place.... but I don't cuz I know how that hammer works. I don't think you're hammer is broken I just think you guys got a new one that you haven't figured out how to use correctly, yet. Since its not on 100% of the time, pretty much can be clicked on or off at will, learn how to use your hammer and quit griping in the forums about it. And for Pete's sake guys, if a poor paladin wants some agro share it with him, let that little guy have some fun too, if you just let their name appear on targets target every now and then so the whole raid can see, and /cheer over, then we don't have to listen to any more of this forum nonsense. It really is worth the effort. I believe in a perfect world there really is enough agro for everyone.
Yet Paladin would still be the weakest agro tank in the game. Maybe you can stop being naïve and be hones who is screwd in either situation. But everyone knows that will not happen,
I can sort of see how you misunderstood what i said, but i did not say to remove harmonious. i said remove the 4% aggro, title of my post, point of every post I've made, stop assuming what I'm saying and actually read what i said. your harmonious still generates 26k aggro a proc without the 4% and without the 4% it removes my major concern.
The SK one has +4% aggro as well It would make more sense to just add it to the paladins remove the stun multiple the hate by 3 to put it in the ballpark of warrior (still less then SK on a single target) And call it damn day
Paladins complaining about AE agro? SK's have always had the advantage AE-wise, which is nothing new. Even without harmonious I out-agro said Paladins on a raid. The complaints are just that; complaints.
