4% aggro

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by josh, May 23, 2017.

  1. p2aa Augur

    In fact, I'm more in favor of balance between tank classes than you and a few other knight fanboys.
    Solid reasoning has been posted about harmonious, backed up by some other people in this thread.
    I'm not surprised that you have to resort to personal attack to express your frustration. Just know that I don't give a rat at all on it.
  2. Chaosflux Augur

    Sheex your meme game is weak lately.
  3. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    A). It's not a personal attack to say that someone chain posting the same, salt-encrusted diatribe on "tank balance" over and over on every possible thread for going on years now is the heir apparent to he-who-shall-not-dual-weild, aka the fabled Battleblade. The mantle hath been passed.
    B). What frustration? My class is doing fine (other than the ever persistent lack of a unique raid role, which is another topic entirely) and directly benefits from one of these types of abilities, but that doesn't stop any rational person from finding the mechanics as poor and unbalanced, at best.

    [IMG]
  4. Sindaiann Augur

    p2aa-ignore

    Nothing to see here
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  5. Chaosflux Augur

    Yeh I am totally just arguing with a wall
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  6. p2aa Augur

    That's fun to see how you live in a fantasy world, with your battleblade comment.
    You are an expert in posting your little sneaky comments on people.
    I'm wondering , do you need this to feel important in RL ?
    Pathetic.
    I post in a lot of variety of threads on these boards, including some pertaining advice to warriors.
    About "tank balance", I defend warrior interest on these boards, but my vision of tank class balance is also more fair that some knight posting on these boards, that always see their own class interest and nothing else. Their goal is to grab everything they can of the other classes so that they can end overpowered. I remember your whining crybabies posts in the knight thread asking to get similar warrior mitigation, without loosing anything. If i was like this for warriors, I would not support knight to get some improvement, like paladin getting more aggro for example.

    The reality is that some people think that only their opinion is right and they don't support contradiction. That's your case.
    I have posted rational reasons on why harmonious is not a poor and unbalanced mechanism.
    I'm not going to repeat it, it's in this thread, and it's backed up by some others.
  7. p2aa Augur


    Feel free to do it, the real question is do I give a rat on it ? I let you guess the answer.
  8. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    [IMG]

    Your memory apparently has more holes than Swiss cheese. Never did I say anything even remotely resembling the above word vomit. In fact I've repeatedly said stances were bad for the game and that I preferred them repealing/replacing the original war only stances rather than just copy pasting them to Knights. That copy/paste created a whole new set of problems in balancing things.

    It's amusing how often these threads turn into, literally, you and only you, arguing some dead point versus just about every other poster, regardless of class they play. But hey, keep doing you! It's not BBish at all.

    The reality is I don't think you are able separate single target from AE passive hate abilities in your head. I don't think anyone particularly cares about war single target harmonious from a balance perspective. I know I sure don't. But expanse, along with the sk version disruption (and in some ways, Wade) generate such an insane amount of hate that if the developers intend for all 3 tank classes to generate aggro numbers in the same ballparks as one another, they missed the mark by a lot for Paladins. Easier to just reign in the war/sk ae abilities imo, but giving Pal their own nuclear aggro button doesn't seem like much of a better choice.

    But hay I guess those Pal scrubs need to just git gud eh? They should accept 3rd fiddle tank/healer role in any kind of competitive raid environment, because moloing group content in raid gear with a wiz nerf has so much to do with anything and is opaf!
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  9. fransisco Augur

    Everything that is wrong with paladins which some refuse to see.

    And +1 sheex for the mems
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  10. p2aa Augur

    You complained in a thread about knight not being able to do their job in raid tanking adds because warriors had defensive proficiency, and you asked therefore to get the same stuff or remove it from warriors. Stance has been put in place by Elidroth to compensate for knight self healing power, at a time they received their new defensive disc, and the only time a warrior was mitigating better than a knight was under their defensive disc. Outside this defensive disc, knights were mitigating better than warriors or close. I first denied this situation and said knight could still do their job in raid and they didn't need anything. Then i agreed with the fact they needed a boost, and I proposed a defensive proficiency for knight too, at a lower % than warriors, like 10 %.
    If devs had done this, a lower Def prof % for knights, then the mitigation balance between tank classes would have been ok. Knights could tank adds, and warriors were still the premium raid boss tank.
    But they gave you the same % than warriors, so we are back to the older situation before warrior stance was created. Aka knight mitigation is overpowered compared to warrior.
    That doesn't warn me to still enjoy this game and playing my class, but I think the situation is not right mitigation wise atm between knights and warriors. That being said, I'm not doing anything to call to nerf knight, and whatever we think devs have the last word and do what they want.

    I'm not able to separate single target and AE ? Reread what I said. I said multiple times that the single target ability was not doing any harm to other tanks. While the AE one, if not used properly, was warning other tank to tank their mob.
    But these abilities can be clicked on / off. Maybe devs have done these abilities asking the users to have common sense and use them accordingly. Asking player to actually think before using some stuff.
    I don't mind that paladin receive the same single target war harmonious ability, if it can fill the aggro boost they ask then ok. As I said, doesn't warn me to do my job. If devs haven't given it to paladins, there must be a reason though. Maybe they thought the stun on the pally harmonious was a good one, when it doesn't seem to be according to paladins.
  11. Chaosflux Augur

    If each ability had a budget.

    3/4 of paladin harmonious ability budget was wasted on the the stun and group heal. I don't know why the devs keep forcing stuns down our throat at every opportunity (see Beacon of Righteousness and Hallowed Lodestar as other examples).

    Meanwhile the Paladin class (or atleast the good players of it) have been trying to distance the class from stuns for well over a decade. We know they hold it against us in balancing of abilities, partly for good reason, partly because they don't realize it's not 1999 or 2002 anymore.

    Look devs we get it you want to keep forcing stuns as our class defining niche, please just stahp. Just let this whole "let's throw a stun on a paladin ability and then use that as one of the driving points as to why it needs to suck" die.

    Keep the stuns off our aggro tools. It's not helping us any.
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  12. Brohg Augur

    Observations as a raid leader:
    SK harmonious : serves mostly to diagnose which players don't pay attention to when it shouldn't be used, provides a zing of schadenfreude when they forget, otherwise changes nothing

    War single harmonious : blocks Roar of the Lion, a useful option really just against membluring bosses
    War AE harmonious : see SK harmonious

    Pal harmonious : puissant versus stunnable adds, a one-gem, two minute hard lock that allows players to keep their max agro or dmg spellbar while it operates. wonderful addition to a class I already couldn't recruit my fill of

    The complaints presented have seemed to me... wild, to say the least
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  13. Chaosflux Augur

    Puissant versus stunnable adds. Won't argue that.

    Not so useful against the majority of other content raid or group wise. You are looking at it purely as a damage control ability which in the circumstances you are viewing it, it is favorable. The chief problem is it only saves 1 spell slot 2 at most. Most stunnable adds can be controlled via armor of Ardency + Force of Dark Seas and Ardent force. It's pretty easy to swap out a crush for force and Ardent force may already more than likely memmed if it's a raid event and the paladin in question has any intentions on tanking. Hot swapping spells in and out mid event is something most paladins are probably used to by now and a quick crush to force swap hotkey might even be something they have. Which in turn devalues the stun component on the Harmonious.

    "But then you don't have to swap" sure that's an argument, but so is "my guilds enchanters handle stunning" or "we just facetank stunnable adds" in either of the other 2 arguments being penalized for the stun in the aggro department puts our class at a marked disadvantage in relationship to the other tanks.

    Which in turn makes our job much more difficult on any adds that are not stunnable. Plus it it is generally detrimental in the group game because it can interrupt pulling and the fact that the damage mitigation stuns give in a group scenario are largely unnecessary. Where if you have particularly adept dps classes (usually those with revamped dots in my experience) it can be a struggle for aggro.

    That's just my personal viewpoint on it, I can see where our difference of opinion could be chalked up to playstyle/guild playstyle.
  14. Seldom Augur

    I don't find Paladin Harmonius puissant versus content that is actually stunnable, in raid or group. I find it highly silly. There is little to no purpose of having a plethora of stuns, if we can keep a mob stunned by merely getting healed. It's nearly as silly as Warriors and Shadowknights having a massive plethora of aggro tools but not needing to utilize hardly any in many situations where AE Harmonius is running. I find both bad for the game. I don't think those type of tools should be auto pilot merely by just receiving heals. Not only is it overpowering but worst, they dull game play IMO. Attentiveness, in addition to fully optimizing abilities and spell sets should be rewarded. Not clicking a single button and achieving same results or FAR better by simply receiving heals
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  15. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    Nope. Show me where I ever asked for "the same stuff". I'll wait.

    What I actually said was the mitigation gap was so giant at the time that warriors were vastly superior (in Arx raids) in nearly every meaningful way and that if devs intended knights to be raid viable outside of a Paladin doing their healing thing and an SK running in circles, some kind of relative parity in the mitigation arena was warranted, because for raid content in that era it was that important.

    Don't get me wrong, either...what we got was not right either, copy pasting was dumb and leaving knight vie disc stacking alone made it worse, and here we are. Personally, I'd rather they just have not started the passive stances arms race thing in the first place. Look how dominant all tanks are relative to the other 13 classes are now as a result.

    This. So much of this. Especially so when the potential of the passive abilities dwarfs the potential of all activated abilities combined by such a comical margin. Not to mention the crazy high uptime.
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  16. Chaosflux Augur

    Sheex and P2aa you guys need to hug out your differences.
  17. Sindaiann Augur

    Pretty accurate
  18. Sindaiann Augur

    I love not seeing the user listed as to who you quoted, but I still know. It is sad.
  19. Mistatk Augur

    I play warrior mainly, and have always advocated for as much difference as practical between warr/sk/paladin. But, at this point in things, with all 3 sharing the same stances and etc, it seems to make the most sense that paladins would get Harmonius abilities with the same agro components as warr and sk. To have one of the 3 way under on agro compared to the other 2 doesn't make much sense with the route they've gone toward tank parity. I think it is an oversight that needs fixing, not an intentional design element. Developers: I ask you to fix paladin harmonius, to be on par with warrior and sk versions. Guys, please give them 24-48hrs to do as i ask, before you start yelling. Thanks.

    Side note: each class needs to have things to offer in both raid, and group game both, with out 1 taking away from the other. (some people dont raid, or dont group often)

    i.e. mages shouldnt do low dps in raids due to having a pet tank in group content. I don't see anyone using pets to tank raids, so they shouldn't have their dps lowered in raids cuz of what they can use pet for in groups.

    i.e monks shouldnt do less dps then most, because FD pulling used to be super important in groups and raids. Who is FD pulling raids anymore? so they shouldn't have lowered dps, because they are able to FD, that doesn't make sense.

    Headshot/decap is level capped so it doesn't work on some mobs. Mercs don't exist in raids. There must be many programming angles to let certain abilities or skills ramp up in raids, or against raid level mobs, and do less vs. standard lower level group mobs. All players should have a suitable raid power, and seperately a suitable group power.
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  20. Xanathol Augur

    If you didn't want stuns, you pretty much picked the wrong class.