I think it's ridiculous that this has to be pointed out but i actually saw somebody suggest that the paladin harmonious generates as much aggro as the warrior and sk ones because of the group heal. I'm gonna ignore all the normal reasons why that isn't true and focus on the actual reason why the other harmonious are so overpowered. The reason is extremely obvious and frankly, it annoys the crap out of me that a dev even put this on a hate ability that can trigger so frequently. Precise Disharmony III Slot 1:Increase Current Hate by 4% Slot 2ecrease Current Hit Points by 7401 Hate Override:26259 increase current hate by 4%, every time it fires. This is ridiculous. lemme do the math for you in case you aren't sure why. Assuming the warrior doesn't do anything but use harmonious. without the 4% increase, the first proc is 26259 hate, with the 4% it is 27309. the total aggro generated after the 10th proc is 262,590 and 327,879 with the 4% modifier. 20th 525,180 and 813,220 30th 787,770 and 1,531,643 (we are already almost double the strength) 48th 1,260,432 and 3,803,189 3 times as much hate as without that 4% and this assumes that the warrior did zero else to generate aggro. anything else he did before hitting harmonious is gonna be compounded 4% 48 times the same way and increase that final result by absurd amounts. just to make it clear how dumb this is, lets say harmonious precision gets used a second time, after 96 procs 2,520,864 and 28,792,149 oh, and don't buy something if you are going to be charged interest.
It multiplies by your current hate. So if they are using any hate abilities, its actually generating far more then even the ridiculous numbers you listed. Its also multiplied by Hate mods, so its more than 4% anyway.
It's nice when I want to be lazy, but I agree. No hate should be accidental hate controlled by another player (in this case the healer(s))
In addition to % based mechanics being ridiculous once base aggro values increase to sizable amounts, it also doesn't do much at the critical periods where you're trying to attain aggro on multiple mobs that just spawned / dropped aggro. Ignoring balance issues between the tanks, I'd rather it have it be similar to wade in to battle's proc of 12k aggro or something, so when a chokidai spawns on me and drops my aggro on 5 mobs that immediately tear after my cleric, I don't get 4% of jack on the next harmonious proc. If that means I no longer can laugh at any paladin halfway through a fight as it's impossible for him to hold aggro while I type out my laughter and activate no abilities, so be it.
Warrior single target harmonious is perfectly fine and needs to stay. While you can argue that the AE Harmonious warns other tanks to be able to aggro their target, the single target one is not a problem for any tank. Because 2 tanks don't tank the same mob and try to overaggro each other on the same mob to see who has the biggest aggro epeen. No reason to complain about the warrior single target harmonious.
It's fine as in it's relatively easy to prevent it from having unpleasant side effects. It's not fine because the only way I can control it is to choose to turn it on or off. After that it's out of my hands. I should be the one controlling my aggro, not the clerics.
Unpleasant side effect on a single target mob ? How ? Are you fighting for aggro on the same mob with the others tanks ?
The problem is Paladin harmonious has a detrimental to the user stun component, and lower Hate value because it has a stun, because the devs apparently think Paladins give a about stuns or something.
Having to click it off is a pain. But is easy to do, that's why I said it was easy. But I shouldn't have to click off a buff before choosing to dps just in case. That's the whole problem with it. My aggro depends on others, not my own actions. And harmonious is a fairly significant amount of potential aggro. I would prefer my aggro be generated by my button presses not the healers button presses.
In raid, I never click it off when I DPS, and I never took aggro of a paladin tanking a mob. Most of the time, when I'm in DPS mode in raid, I forget anyway to refresh Harmonious Precision because I don't need the heal mod too. And when I think to refresh it, I don't overaggro the knight tanking his mob. As you say it btw, you have the choice to click it or not. This is why the AE harmonious tool too is not the problem, the problem is player being dumb to use it all the time, whatever the situation. It's not because you have a tool that you have to use it all the time.
Paladin agro is a complete joke next to Sk's oh sure a paladin might snatch agro for a sec is he gets a lucky taunt after using every agro ability he has only for it to taking right back by the sk. The days of paladin agro lock are over, any SK can come up and control agro of a mob while eating his hotpocket and watching reruns of Friends
What matters is can you hold aggro over DPS, not who has the biggest aggro epeen bewteen tanks on the same mob. If tanks are fighting for aggro on the same mob, this is just terrible gameplay. Look for another mob to tank. If it's a problem of the SK using his AE aggro tools like crazy when he has been assigned to tank a single mob, you another single mob, and the SK ends with tanking the 2 mobs,then the problem is the SK who is a complete moron and should learn on how to team with his tanks mates.
The aggro potential of the tanks relative to one another does matter. As far as assigned mobs, that's largely uneccesary and inefficient, tanks pick up as many as they can, FFA targetting in alot of guilds. Also how hard the dps can go out of the gate is dictated by the rate at which tanks can generate hate. So instead of a slight pause waiting waiting for paladin to solidly have aggro, for an sk or warrior the dps opens up instantly with no repercussions. All those classes have to do is get healed a couple time and it's yawn festival, meanwhile the paladin is over here locking out spells AA and discs to produce a fraction of the aggro. The problem is Paladin harmonious is 1/3 to 1/4 of the hate as the other similar abilities. Why should they be the only tank that actually has to work for it?
Are you raiding EoK content ? T3 event 1 flame and frost mobs will kill one tank easily if this tank tanks 2 of these mobs at the same time, T3 event 2 the adds popping from the dragon will kill also one tank trying to FFA aggroing all adds. If you use the correct aggro spells, you will be able to hold aggro over DPS, for the most part, even when DPS burn at start. Instead of asking to nerf the other tank class, ask for an aggro boost for your own class. That's more productive. Other tanks have to work for aggro too, there isn't one magical button to push and you can go afk. Or you play with bad DPS.
Those type of arguments would hold weight alittle more if the disparity was closer. There's no reason 2/3 harmonious should do triple to quadruple the aggro of one.
FYI, balance matters in the group game too. The abilities shouldn't be balanced on whether or not there's a downside to using them on the last couple of raids only. That's just silly and if that's all you've got then you're really reaching for any argument you can come up with just to keep it the way it is right now. The way it is now, you can just keep pulling mobs to an SK and they make a beeline straight to them due to the AE procs. Meanwhile, the paladin has to keep switching targets, casting spells, and deal with losing aggro. All the SK has to do is occasionally refresh harmonious before it runs out while someone pulls mobs to them - just keep feeding mobs to the SK and keep him healed. It's such a massive difference in the group game that even the best paladins will look silly next to a crappy SK running harmonious. It has nothing to do with skill, gear, raider vs. nonraider. It's just insane what the difference is. The warrior AE version is just as silly as the SK harmonious and your example of it not causing problems just because you're not getting healed doesn't change that. It's crazy that anyone thinks it's good game design to have the AE aggro abilities do the same amount of aggro as the single-target abilities. It's absolute insanity that anyone thinks the AE aggro abilities should do so much more total aggro than single-target abilities. Whether you like it or not, it's a serious game balance issue.
So according to some as long as your not a paladin agro is just fine. Classic example of if my crap is better than yours everything is perfectly fine. Fact is agro is completely broken as a Paladin I should not loose agro on a single target because a SK is using AE agro. My single target agro should not get broken from a SK or Warrior spamming AE hate ever. Yes Paladin have a lot of agro tools but they have been allowed to sit and rot with no real upgrade to modern game play.
There is a reason for devs, or they would have given you some hate too on your harmonious. Also, josh numbers seem hugue, but in reality one single mob doesn't live that long so that he has 100 million hate on him. The charges are used on many mobs. Well, maybe devs want the players to not be dumb, and use accordingly their tools. They know these tools are powerful, but it's the player decision to use it accordingly. Aggro wise maybe, but don't forget the other advantages that raid geared paladins have in the group game survival wise. I haven't seen a crappy SK tanking one T2 named + 3 adds with the SK being the sole healer in his group. This thread targets specifically the single target aggro warrior harmonious, not the AE abilities. As I said it, even if I think the AE abilities are not a problem because it's up to the player to be clever to use it or not, I'm willing to review these AE Harmonious abilities. But warrior single target aggro one doesn't warn you to do your job.
