The stun is just the paladin's means of generating hate, and it works whether the mob is stunnable or not, that's pretty much besides the point. Having a plethora of stuns means you have a plethora of agro generation tools. The stun portion is just a bonus that no other tanks get. I'm sure they could replace those with equal direct hate only abilities but why? Lets look at some of the situations I've encountered in the last month where harmonious was running. In my experience I've found harmonious generally useless in group content if..... -I'm at the the start of any pull before I take damage, and I still need agro (0 hate generated from harmonious) -I'm in a high dps group where mobs don't live long enough for harmonious to be any real benefit but the agro remains high. (Those 42-48 charges don't get fired off all at once, and this is pretty much the typical experience in EoK for me.) -At any time the DPS started before I need heals (0 hate generated from harmonious) -I've pulled a lot of mobs and used any defensives that keep my health from spiking enough to need heals ( 0 hate generated from harmonious) -I've pulled a solo mob and literally need no heals, but the group is DPSing hard and I definitely need agro. (0 hate generated from harmonious) -I'm grouped with my shaman friend that puts ALL the dots on every single one of the 10 mobs we've pulled. Leading with Sraskus Drowse cuz aoe Languid Bite is funzies (Harmonious isn't enough to hold agro, I literally need to use everything, this is just how we play.) -the bard songs or HoTs chained agro causing the DPS merc to run off and burn all over a mob 10 paces from camp (Harmonious isn't helping that bard or the merc!) -I've got a mercenary healer that wont heal when I'm at 100% to generate agro (0 Harmonious agro generated) -I've got a shaman healer that keeps the group alive via Sheer / Surges / group recourse, or any time I'm just not getting direct single target heals. (0 Harmonious agro generated) -I've got a healer that is confident enough to let my health drop a bit because they know that one is heal is going to be enough. (Very low Harmonious agro generated) -I've killed the healer (0 Harmonious hate generated) -There are blur mechanics (really doesn't matter how many charges of harmonious got used if I don't use something else somebody gonna die!) -There are FD mechanics (Dito) -I just don't want someone getting hit between heals on chain pulls, or I don't want the puller to tank. (-Harmonious doesn't think ahead) - group heals are forced because of a heavy aoe environment (0 Harmonious hate generated) I just got my warrior to 105 and some 105 gear. No augs outside of some type 5s, got it a wurmy and decent shield from Sebilis. So I'm thinking hey I'll go to FM and practice warrior things, there's always a group there. I gave a cursory glance to my warrior skills, sorta lined some up by function on a few hotbars, and figured hey I've got 2 harmonious abilities I'll be fine while I figure the rest out. Turns out this warrior with just autoagranted AA can take a hit just fine, like a champ! Even 5 hits cuz I started pulling 5 mobs at once. Hey I can do it on an SK why not this warrior? I've got harmonious going its gonna be great! It wasn't great. I was about the only one not taking damage. With my shaman friend healing, everyone else was tanking great! Oh look a named mob, all I need is initial agro and with the spam heals, I've got a 4% hate boost per heal on top of the hate from that single target Harmonious. At least I know I got this one, as long as I can just mash a couple of the defensives to stay alive! I got the initial agro, I got the spam heals after flash of anger wore off. For 15 seconds I was great! Spam heals still coming, and now they're going to someone else, because I'm not tanking any more, I taunt back cuz its like the only other button I know, 10 seconds of .... ok someone else tanking, this goes on and on and on until the mob dies, I had asked my shaman friend to keep healing me for agro, it didn't work, harmonious by itself sucks. It will not start out generating high enough hate to get you there, you have to use other things and know what you're doing so its got something to build on. Otherwise your agro is going to suck, like mine did. Anybody wanna point out that I'm a nub on a warrior that doesn't know what I'm doing? I'd just have to agree with you. I haven't played one in years and I made that thing just because of this discussion, but I can tell you one thing with certainty, harmonious is not a single button cure for nubliness. That hate +4% is not enough to save anybody but it might just be enough to smooth things over for someone that already knows what they're doing and knows how to initiate good solid agro at the start. In group content that full insane amount of hate is never realized, ever. By itself, it definitely doesn't make one OP or even mediocre. However, it seems like a pretty nice way to save warriors some endurance on long raid fights. Maybe they've got some plans to make agro less of an issue for raid tanks in light of making room for other variables? I think that would be pretty neat.
While you are writing novels about paladin stuns being our aggro source, some of us are laughing. It's not a bonus, fyi. Anyway most of your anecdotes are about bad play, what happens when you have 6 people playing optimally? play and players aren't what we are adressing, the problem is mainly manifest when players are playing well. Anyone can hold aggro off bad players, that isn't an issue, the fact you had issues with it, though funny, doesn't prove or disprove paladin harmonious being out of balance with similar abilities.
brb comparing a terrible warrior keeping aggro off of good players/shamans to a good paladin keeping aggro off most groupers (terrible in every regard)
And there's any valid reason it is "fixed now" as opposed to unfixed before except your biaised vision of the game? And that's a situation that doesn't happen with every tank classes, now even you can link it to what I said earlier that if one of the 3 tank classes can't do as good as the 2 others, that class will be left out not being able to perform its job, a situation that may not occur in a casual raid but will for sure happen in a real raid. Since you don't bother to explain much, we can agree you're just a waste of space on this thread right?
