If this were 2004, or i'll even give you 2009, yes. This isn't though, and seeing as how CoTF exp(Get off the GImble thing already, we're talking about entire expansions) isn't gamebreaking, why cause issues with casuals, or with someone who likes to stick to themselves? You're not affected by their decision, at all, unless you want to farm those older zones for drops. But then you're saying your need for gear/loot is worth more than their need for exp? This issue isn't directly affecting me at the moment, so I am looking at this from a neutral perspective. Older content has always survived(You're really going to use LDoNs or OMMs to make your point?) because lower exp, on lower hp mobs meant it evened out the risk for people that could not field full groups. Where were the complaints when 65-70 was being done in a single session in PoP? Or when 70-75 was being done in Illaslin? Decrease the benefits for the tasks? Sure, but openly nerfing experience for content that is the SAME level? That is outrageous lol
Edit is being weird, sorry for double post. Decrease the benefits for tasks? Sure, but openly nerfing open world experience content that is the same level? That is outrageous
Keeping beating that dev drum BB. You limit peoples options and you limit your customer base period. Forcing people into current content exclusively sounds all well and good until people find out its less content and not tuned for everyone.
1) Using LdoN and OMM as examples for for the basis of your argument is like using tooth picks to build the foundation of a house. What about the level 65-75 eras when there were hundreds and thousands of people across 3-4 different expansions at once. Some people were in PoP, OOW, DoDH, PoR, and TSS. People played in Kunark when Velious was out and people played in Velious with Luclin was out. This model has gone on for pretty much every expansion to ever come out. Nobody seemed to care or complain about the need for exp nerfs then. People have and hopefully will always play in previous expansions for various reasons. It's what gives this game choice, variety and opportunities. This game has thrived on this model, yet they blew that up with one swift nerf by forcefully trying to funnel people into 4-8 zones, based on play style, skill, gear, etc. 2) EQ has always held on to the law of diminishing returns. By keeping the experience the same, you eventually diminish the value of it due to level cap increases, gear increases etc. The only problem with CoTF HAs was their oversight to allow them to scale forever when in reality they should cap the scaling of the missions to level 100-105. What you fail to realize is that people will not or currently do not want the gear from HAs (for the most part) as it's outdated both in terms of functionality - aka the focuses - and stat value. People will naturally seek new gear and upgrades in TDS....on their own terms. The developers failed to realize the model that's worked for a better part of 2 decades and completely changed. An experience nerf to CoTF and even RoF was not necessary at all. Static zone mobs in both these expansions are already light blue so their value of experience, gear, etc has already significantly decreased. So, the only problem was HA scaling, which would've been an easy fix but instead they broke their whole model of consistency, minus a few outliers that you (BB) give and portray as the end all be all of how EQ functioned in the past. Yes, there were some obvious, selective examples like LDoN and OMM, BUT that wasn't the general norm of EQ. Your two examples could be disproved with dozens of other examples throughout the game's history which you conveniently ignore. Self-imposed ignorance is the downfall of any hope for progression in terms of seeing eye to eye. Get out of your bubble before you cause any more harm. 3) Stick to one position and abide by it. I see in another thread you speaking about how there is plenty to do for people because they can always go back and do unfinished stuff, yet when it's a convenience to you, you quickly change this point of view to "you must progress and enter new expansions. You cannot live in older zones." Your rants are nonsensical because you refute your own positions. How can anyone agree with you when you don't actually have a solid stance to defend? 4) How can you argue that there is a larger game out there when the developers, for all intents and purposes, just removed ALL other expansions of the game the second you hit 101? I know my math is a bit rusty, but how can one even begin to argue that 200 zones is smaller than the current 8 of TDS? Even if you want to look at zones for characters in our level range (100-105), how can you argue that the 20 or more zones that RoF/CoTF gave us is less than the 8 petite zones of TDS? I'd rather have a choice of 30 zones than I would 8 zones, especially when some are certainly not tuned for the average player. Fortunately, I'm blessed to be in a raiding guild and have raid gear. 5) Who is to dictate what EQ is and is not? You have no power to say that EQ is not a soloing game. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) means that you have options on what to do and how to do it. This isn't a linear game where you have select quests to do and follow it in a very specific order. If people want to solo, they should and do have the freedom to do so. Don't tell people what this game is and is not, because you did not create it. That's like saying the Bill of Rights only applies to white, anglo saxon males. It's beyond ignorant and feeble-minded. The freedom of choices means just that: You can choose what to do and how to do it. You cannot just take it back and say, "well, actually we changed our minds and you have to do it this way."
There's more to Everquest than experience. With Heroic Characters, AA grants, Daily HAs, and Daily hotzone tasks, experience has never been more trivial. There is still a ton of stuff to do in RoF and previous zones for characters 101+. There is a common fallacy in this thread that since experience was decreased, that makes the content completely obsolete. This is ridiculous. Just because the best place to obtain experience is in current zones, doesn't eradicate all of the invaluable items and content in the older zones. Okay. Ahh, so Battleaxe has no power to dictate what EQ is and is not, but you do. Gotcha.
Very much agree with this. Given that something like 40-50% of critical AA is autogranted now and many of the higher ranks that aren't scale downward pretty badly to be very small upgrades at very high costs, the necessity of exp is at a pretty low point in the game's history. Making the game smaller is a bad thing imo, but statements like this are pretty false: Can you no longer zone into these zones? Do tasks, camp augs and clickies, hunt named or shinies in any of these zones? They removed older zones as viable exp spots 101+, they didn't delete the zones entirely. I thought the RoF stuff was a bit heavy handed personally, but let's be truthful here about what they actually did and why.
LOL Triconix isn't dictating what EQ has to be. In fact he is doing the exact opposite. And yes I have done savior in 4 RoF zones since TDS came out (This was all after I had gotten level 105 and all my aa... well I am doing planar intelligence on my paladin) The exp was super crappy. It could and should have been better in my opinion. The nerf on exp was far too severe it could be reduced in half and still give next to no exp at all. This is a major jump away from how things have been in the past. And no idea what the Gotcha is about. He is just indicating that BB changes his arguments to suit whatever position he is currently trying to say is the law. When SOE does something he likes he says SOE is right they are the one who should decide listen to them. When SOE does something he doesn't like apparently SOE is no longer right and no longer the ones who should decide things. The guy does more flip flops then a gymnast on that score.
What happned to your position that SOE should be making all the decisions and we as players should just accept it? SOE decided how FTP should be and from your other statements they are the ones who know better. Just wondering how you reconcile SOE is always right with they are only right when you want them to be.
1. The same way you decide Daybreak is right about FtP and wrong about old content shouldn't be the best place to get exp. 2. LDoN exp, OMM exp, swarming effectiveness, and some relatively previous content exp is still adjusted. (And if it provides comfort to you, FtP isn't). And I might add so is the transition of EQ from a spread out over a half dozen expansions game to a more episodic game where catch up content is periodically provided to bunch players up into the current expansion whereupon there's an expectation that traction having been provided they move forward. see LDoN, OMM (they specifically stated this was the intent of OMM), SoD, etc.
Was swarming effectiveness ever reduced by lowering mob exp? I thought rather than go that route, they just reined in the abilities themselves to make it less effective. Not sure that's a good example.
When did I dictate what EQ is? I say its a game where freedom of choice exists. I guess that constitutes as dictating what it is....oh wait, it's not. What you first said is exactly what everyone, including I, am defending, however YOU are missing the point. We are not saying that zones are only useful for experience, but zones in our level range SHOULD remain valuable in the experience component. Everyone has a right to go back to old zones for any reason, but zones in our level range shouldn't be arbitrary nerfed excessively compared to past norms lasting over 12-13 years. I'm still trying to figure out your reply to the last quote? It makes no sense to me. I stayed on topic, I defended my points. Reading comprehension failure, I guess. Gotcha. Obviously Sheex and you didn't understand the point of my thread. Battleblade is strictly arguing that any valid thing to accomplish should be done in only the most current expansion and stubbornly abides by this mentality in this thread. However, he changes his mindset in other threads over the dicussion of there being a lack of things to do in current gameplay. He refutes his own arguments. That's a fallacy. My position is completely different. I argued that there should be a wide array of things to do in all other expansions that could be beneficial. When I said "for all intents of purposes" I was referring to what Battleblade was debating, not what I felt. Active reading works like a charm.
Yes there is more to Everquest than experience. But lets get this back talking about level 101+ exp - they get no help from Heroic chars or the auto grant, which just leaves daily HAs and hotzone tasks, which at the end of the day only give you exp and do nothing to help with improving your char in other ways. TDS is only 8 zones and most of those zones are small and annoying. Yes there is a ton of stuff to do in RoF, but at a cost of next to no exp, especially if you are doing AAs. They either need to rework the AA and merc formulas or reverse/lessen the exp nerf on RoF and before. Of the 3 last expansions, my opinion is RoF was the best of the 3.
It's a good example when you consider https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...ading-grinding-xp-in-the-darkened-sea.214449/ "As we move into The Darkened Sea, we've made a few changes to ensure that adventuring in the newest content will be the best way to gain experience to advance their characters in both levels and AA points. Playing in the newest content should always be the most attractive, and demolishing content from several expansions ago should not be the fastest way to advance your character." You don't get much more "demolishing content from several expansions ago" then swarming Kesoria Library.
You said Battleaxe had no right "to dictate what EQ is or is NOT." You said he had "no power to say that EQ is not a soloing game." Two sentences later, you said, "This isn't a linear game where you have select quests to do and follow it in a very specific order." You said, "Stick to one position and abide by it." Later, you took a position that nobody had the power to say what EQ is or is NOT. Then, 2 sentences later, you said what EQ is NOT. Capiche? But please, put MY reading comprehension at issue.
What I mean is they didn't nerf the exp gained per kill specifically to combat swarming. They nerfed the abilities and left the exp intact. You're confusing exping in old zones with the large set of mass killing ability changes to sk swarm, headshot, mage beams, etc. At the time it was RoF or CotF? So there was no level 105 and no scaling problems. That's why I say it's not a good example, swarming changes were ABILITY changes. The TDS changes were purely EXP.
Again, law of diminishing returns. Naturally zones would decrease in value as time goes on. There was no reason to severely nerf something that was already decreasing in value. Cotf HA scaling is a whole different issue/problem. There problem was never-ending scaling, which should've been capped, not the route they took.
And is EQ a linear game? No. That's common knowledge and the overall structure of the game. You can go where you want, when you want and do what you want. Sometime's there are prerequisites, but they certainly aren't linear. That's not dictating what the game is and is not. That's just stating what the game is: an open world MMORPG. By definition, the game isn't linear. By me saying that it is not something set in stone, I'm fundamentally saying that EQ can be whatever it wants to be for the person playing and only for that one person. One person has no right to dictate the game for an entire population, which is exactly what BB did. That's the complete opposite of my statement. Capiche?
I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything other than the extreme minority who won't agree. Back in RoF there were more resources for developers and a lot would argue it was the last "normal" size expansion, even despite 5 zones being staggered and released later. Not sure what that says other than EQ players like getting reasonable amounts of diverse content and not getting pigeon holed into a tiny handful of rushed out zones.
I'm honestly pretty indifferent about the experience nerf. I just think that people are being melodramatic by saying that it ruined the ENTIRE game for them. This is EVERquest, yet people seem to want to be given all the xp and lootz fed to them on a silver spoon, and they want it NOW. Part of what used to make EQ so epic for me (not so much in today's EQ) was that feeling of accomplishment after camping Uber_Item_001 for weeks or finally getting past that hell level after a month of grinding. I think there are still plenty of exceptional places to grind in EQ after attaining level 101, and I also think there are still a lot of exceptional items and group missions in RoF. I don't think anyone is going to dispute this with you. RoF was a blast. Hopefully, the next expansion will look a lot more like RoF than CotF or TDS.
