So.. Xp nerf

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by silku, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Ummm I agree with this completely. The newest expansion should be the best place for experience for characters of that expansions levels. BUT AGAIN, the nerf of exp for those level 101+ was far more severe then it needed to be. I could five times higher then it is right now and still be far far less exp then level 101+ toons would get in TDS. They went too far in my opinion with the nerf.
    Yinla likes this.
  2. Detheb Augur

    Yeah, whats up man, long time no see lol.

    Also, way to not answer BB!
  3. Harabakc Augur

    The genuinely funny part about this is we're discussing the RoF exp nerf, but I've seen no less than a dozen mentions of gribble HAs. Since when is Gribble part of RoF?

    Even more funny, gribble is being bitched about... HAs were used to make up for an utter lack of content. RoF was a large, content rich expansion, without stopping to count it seems like more zones than cotf and tds combined. It just cracks me up to see someone so dead set on backing the devs on nerfing RoF exp but bashing them for gribble, because that type of thing was done instead of a more content rich expansion.
    Garshok and Yinla like this.
  4. Battleaxe Augur

    I don't see any logic to the position that the newest expansion should be the best place for experience for characters of a given expansion's levels while complaining that previous content experience which was far too generous was nerfed.

    By far too generous I'm refering to people reaching the new max level and max AA's in it in 1 day to 1 week.

    I don't see any legitimacy to a complaint that a given expansion has too little content when people are spending 90% of their time in a couple of HA's. I particularly see no validity when a new expansion is launched and they've hardly done any of the new content.

    Finally when I actually post Corwyhn said X and he didn't I will make a correction.

    However when I post
    “1. The same way you decide Daybreak is right about FtP and wrong about old content shouldn't be the best place to get exp.”
    and Corwyhn casts doubt about his agreement that "old content shouldn't be the best place to get exp" by posting:
    The nerf was to old content only for level 101 and higher. You are complaining Daybreak enforced
    (in your words) "The newest expansion should be the best place for experience for characters of that expansions levels."

    So, "The newest expansion should be the best place for experience for characters of that expansions levels." so long as Daybreak doesn't make that happen????? Sounds like flip flopping/pretzel bending to me.

    In my statement "The same way you decide Daybreak is right about FtP and wrong about old content shouldn't be the best place to get exp" the word "wrong" should be replaced with "you appear to be ambivalent".
  5. Triconix Augur

    First of all, let's just get this point straight. The OP was talking about experience nerfs in RoF and how there barely is any experience in any zone of that expansion for 101. Gribble HAs are found in CoTF, not RoF. Also, if you accepted read what I said before, RoF was a perfect example of diminishing returns. Mob cons are already falling rapidly, therefore the experience isn't nearly as good as TDS. The gear is very inferior to TDS, so there is another reason why TDS is better for 101+. What the OP is saying is that the ridiculous exp nerf in RoF was completely unnecessary due to the general mechanics of how Everquest progression works. Things naturally get outdated, there is no reason to speed the process up when it already had little to no advantages.

    Secondly, there is and has been no argument that prior expansions should be the best experience in the game. Much like other arguments, this viewpoint was created only in your narrow-mindedness. The only argument has been that past expansions, as long as they are in our level range, should be a place of viable experience. Viable =/= best.

    As for reaching new levels in 1 day to 1 week, well that has happened in EQ for many many years and there was no restrictions in place (for a majority of the time) based around experience nerf. Instead, they nerfed the methods, not the experience itself. Check out swarming. When RoF was released, I know people who got to max level in just 4-6 hours, let alone a day. Nothing was done then. If people want to sit around for long periods of time to get max level (there are 24 hours in a day, which would mean it would take around 4-5 hours per level) then so be it. If it takes 20+ hours of game time to get 5 levels, that's pretty consistent with the last 7-10 years of EQ. You are acting as if something is completely out of the ordinary.

    Again, like I said prior, the only problem/oversight was the fact that the HAs scaled forever. There is no level cap on them. That could've been a simple fix by giving them a level cap, then they would work exactly like any other prior zone. Gradual decay into oblivion.

    Finally, the only one changing their opinions continuously throughout different threads is you. You argue that people should go back to prior expansions, yet in here they shouldn't. Make up your mind once and for all. Or are you finally, in some subtle way, admitting that there are legitimate reasons to go backwards in content even though you seemed pretty distraught that Gribble led to gear, currency, and exp? Hate to break the news, but CoTF currency also led to many prior expansions' loot also. If you were so concerned with CoTF loot, then then they (the devs) could have made that an option to buy with TDS currency, no?

    If, for 5 minutes, you would stop with your downright stubbornness and narrow-mindedness, you may understand the arguments at hand. Rather, you make up your own narrative and push it on to everyone else, deeming them completely wrong. Unfortunately, this is the case with just every position you take so I already know it's a futile request.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  6. Battleaxe Augur

    There was no nerf for level 100 or lower.

    As was the case with OMM, the purpose of all content is to prepare you for the challenges you will face in new content when it is released.

    If normal diminishing returns are not sufficient to chase players out of previous content given the benefits of leveling and old content trivialization then more draconian measures are required. See OMM experience adjustments, LDoN experience adjustments, swarming effectiveness adjustments, changes in previous content affecting players who are level 101+.

    Previous lower level content should be "viable"? No sir, that's exactly what it should not be. It should not be a "viable" place to get experience once you have moved past it in level. Farm it to get an item, finish an achievement, ... fine.

    Farm it for experience using your level 101+ power to demolish level 100 content and get less experience per mob but at such a high kill rate you'd be silly to get experience in the new content? Not fine - time for the Nerf-a-tronic 5000.

    Anyone understanding that there is value in accelerating more casual players so they can get ready for new content and then directing players into the current episode of EQ would understand. I appreciate that throwbacks to the banish 80% of the game's population to previous expansions era would disagree - but all that approach accomplishes is to give players who are already behind in the progression more content. They don't suffer from a too little content issue by definition.

    I think adjustments to previous content experience to encourage entering TDS as soon as possible will stand and so will all level 100's in level 100 content and not in 3 year old content. ScatterQuest is over - it's been over and the benefits to it being over are readily apparent.
  7. Harabakc Augur

    Why are you chasing people out of older content? Again, how awful is TDS that you have to nerf the hell out of 2 expansions ago to get people to go to your new one?

    Sad part is, the 3 year old content is more fun, even if it's just grinding.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  8. Battleaxe Augur

    One has to chase players out of least effort/most reward content always. In original EQ I wasn't interested in Orc1 a year after release. By that time I was level 40+ and Orc1 was 0 experience. In the current game despite a big increase in my power last year's Orc1 is still drooltastic experience. I only gained 5 levels at most - natural experience decay of old content based on level is too slow.

    How awful that you have to practically eliminate OMM experience to chase low effort players out of OMM and into the new content? Such things say a lot more about players than new content design inadequacies.

    Frankly, TDS rocks. The rewards are good. AA experience has been good. The rewards are good. It's fun - really fun - maybe one of the 3-4 most fun expansions ever.

    Compare the complaints about TDS group content (there have been some) with the volume of "Don't nerf our Easy Peasy RoF/CoTF Experience Pinatas". What's that tell you about how "gamer" some players are? Not very.

    Speaks volumes about some players. If grinding 3 year old content is more fun than taking on new adventures, they and not EQ have issues. Converting EQ into a 15 minute lockout and instanced Lords of EverQuest RTS/shooter loot and reward pinata is not the answer.
  9. guado Augur

    Speaking of OMM, can they like remove the lockout? All I want to do is buy a case of redbull / vodka and just blast thru them. This 3x / day stuff is killing me.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  10. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Heart of Fear Epicentre NPCs are level 102, names are level 104, even at level 105 you have barely moved past it in level.
    Tempest Temple NPCs are level 97 - 102, names are level 103, if players have past Heart of Fear in levels then they had also passed Tempest Temple on the day it was released and should be getting the same exp for killing there as in Hear of Fear.
    Just for completeness Argin Hiz NPCs are level 99 - 102 names are level 104/105, by your logic that has been passed in level as well and should not be a viable place to get exp. I'm not even going to go into the lower level CotF zones.
    segap and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  11. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Err if you are talking about HAs that was 2 year old content not 3, 3 year old content would be RoF and before and I'm pretty sure RoF never had any content with a 15 minute lockout.
  12. Triconix Augur

    I never said there was a 100 and below nerf? Where did you come up with this?

    And why shouldn't content in our level range be viable? Cause you say so? Level 100 content is in our level range, is it not? And again, cutting out half my argument. I already said RoF has diminished results, so much so that the exp was already lacking...light blue and below cons. Gear is outdated from RoF also. The reasons to go to TDS are there, but the expansion is small, boring and generally unrepeatable due to this. So, why shouldn't people enjoy what they want to enjoy? Because you dont agree with it? Sounds like a pretty substandard reason. Nerf something already with already diminished value? A waste of dev time when they could fix the ongoing bugs in TDS, imo. Here's a progressive thought: Make a large expansion with lots to do!

    By your logic, anyone 105 has already passed 90% of TDS content. Most things are DB to me, outside nameds and a few mobs in t3. So that leaves me and anyone 105 like 50% of 3 zones? What a grand time I'll have!

    What benefits? There are more people leaving, unsubscribing and leaving alt accounts to go silver than ever before. Meanwhile, you're shoving the rest of the people in 2-3 zones. How is that beneficial at all? "Scatterquest" made this game. Options and choice. Taking that away just makes this a glorified console game.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  13. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    ......and there's the final nail in the credibility coffin. Are you serious? Other than the artwork and lore, this has to be one of the worst expansions ever, and if you polled the playerbase the vast majority aren't going to view it favorably. While this is no fault of the game designers due to pulling resources, TDS is small, rushed, incomplete, repetitive, lacks adequate group and raid content, is immensely tedious, and came saddled with one of the largest set of exp nerfs the game has ever seen in 15 years. If that "rocks" to you, I think we're done here.
    Yinla and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  14. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    To be fair when has a thread on the EQ forums stayed on one topic? This thread isn't so much about the original OPs subject as it is about things Battleship doesn't like or does like in EQ. *shrugs*
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Ummm dude really really bad example. In original EQ it spanned 50 levels. And the difference in power between whatever level you did orc 1 at and level 40 is much larger then between level 100 and level 105. You are pushing it trying to find examples to support your argument.
  16. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    In my opinion, RoF should give a reasonable amount of experience to anyone over level 100 on a sliding scale as they level higher which has been how EQ has done it for year. In my opinion, I also agree that RoF exp needed to be adjusted from what it was because it would have been TOO good when TDS came out. In my opinion, it was adjusted TOO much. You should still be getting some exp from RoF even at level 105 that actually shows up. This is because of the mobs relative levels. You should not get the best exp in RoF when you are level 101 and higher. You should get more then you are getting now though,

    The strength of EQ has been its depth of play and its depth of content. Allowing players to get reasonable amounts of exp in the last 3 or 4 expansions (in this case reasonable does not mean the best exp but SOME amount more then is currently given) plays to the strength of EQ. Trying to force everyone in to the latest expansion plays AGAINST the strength of EQ and basically says the game is only one expansion in size and that's it. In my opinion the only really important thing about the latest expansion, at any given time, is that people like it and buy it. As long as their is a level increase people need to buy the expansion to get the level increase. Once they have bought it whether they exp in the latest content or not should be up to them.

    My personal preference would be for no Free to Play BUT I acknowledge the reality of todays gaming environment. There are many many FTP games out there and they have forced almost all games out there with the exception of Wow to introduce rather aggressive FTP models. Even WoW bent into pressure someone and has FTP to level 20. Everquest is a 15 year old game with 15 year old graphics as a whole. To expect new players to try EQ out without it being free to play in an environment where there are hundreds of FTP games out there is insane. I wish it was different. I wish there was a lot of people out there willing to become EQ subscribes but to actually believe that is the case is insane.

    The reality of EQ is that we are not likely to get new players into the game in any numbers, FTP is the only viable way to draw back previous EQ games and a handful of new people to EQ. The hope is some of them will go off FTP and become subscribers. The hope is also that microtransactions will help the games profits. I was very worried when FTP first came out. It did not turn out nearly as bad as I thought it would.

    With Free to Play players there has to be content that FTP peeps can complete. That meant that when CotF came out it had content FTP people could finish. Again the idea is to get people to by expansions.... this gave FTP peeps a reason to buy CotF.
  17. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    No matter how many times this is pointed out Battleship will ignore it because it does not suit his argument. *sighs*
    silku likes this.
  18. segap Augur


    There is some good in TDS. The real problem is the T1 zones really suck. The forced progression tasks are very tedious and lacked reward of any kind. The T2 loot is minimally better than cotf T2. Zones are small and there are not enough of them. These are everyone's initial impressions. Not a good way to entice them in to the latest content.

    A lot of people soured on TDS before they got to the content that is actually somewhat fun. Some will never like it as they've become addicted to mobs that fall over when you sneeze on them. I personally like the return to mobs that take a little longer to kill so that I can actually play my various classes using more of their abilities. I'm getting 40% of an AA per kill in T3. That's yielding me about 80AA in my typical nightly session. In cotf, I was around 50-60 AA a night. My younger alts that were not maxed out in cotf will easily max out soon. I do wish there were more T3 zones so I could explore. I really wish there was an old-fashioned dungeon to crawl through. I also wish they had not reversed the agro range increases in Dredge.

    For me, there is fun content in TDS. Just not enough. But, perhaps, the player base has changed and I'm an outlier. TDS T3 zones are ghost towns. General is filled with people "lfg dh ha". Perhaps today's players are more interested in a very casual experience where they can socialize while annihilating mobs. Nothing wrong with that and I do enjoy it from time to time. It's about finding balance for different play styles and giving choice to go where you want to go.
  19. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    Not implying that there's *nothing* at all good about the expansion, but compared to RoF and earlier it's not anywhere near as enjoyable. I can't even imagine how a casual type would feel. Even in the "good" zones in t3 its at best on par with prior content, but for most I think that'd be a stretch.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Yinla like this.
  20. Hoosierdaddy Lorekeeper

    The xp nerf hit me in the don't care to play anymore spot. I rarely log in now. I have even stopped raiding. Never thought that would happen.

    Daybreak might want to take note of people like me.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Yinla like this.