So.. Xp nerf

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by silku, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Garshok Augur

    So . . . because of Gribble . . . they nerfed . . . ROF.

    I can tell by the way you constantly babble about Gribble and opine upon OMM (that's going back what, five years?) that those are highly emotive points for you. No problem.

    And you know what? I largely agree with you. The idea that they would put in missions (HAs) without a lockout seemed so preposterous that I just assumed there was one; a lockout would have helped mitigate at least some of the issues with Gribble. (Though the fact that the devs put unique loot on the all the named in the missions should have been a tipoff to me that expected rules no longer applied). And OMM implementation was . . . well, it would be hard to use forum-appropriate language to describe that.

    However - what does that really have to do with nerfing mob exp in ROF and below beyond the normal con-level decay?

    If the mob exp is really such an issue - why was it logical to nerf, say, mob experience in Plane of Shadows, but not nerf mob experience in at least COTF Tier 1 static zones?

    If they were going to nerf mob experience, do you think that they should have done it in a way that didn't break merc experience in HAs or cause the bugs we're seeing with different levels grouping together?

    I get that they have limited resources; quite possible (likely?) it is an issue of not having the resources to fix any negative second and third order effects that they might perceive. Do you think they should have fixed them if they had the resources?
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  2. Garshok Augur

    OK.

    I am asking a question about game mechanics. If SOE is saying that they would have had to drastically up the amount of EXP needed for levels 101-105 unless the exp in ROF and below was nerfed, was the inappropriate experience gain in ROF and below due to scaling task rewards, or due to the actual mob exp.

    You are regurgitating your personal design philosophy. I don't see any game mechanics in there.

    If the problem, experience acquisition-wise, was mob experience (you know - the game mechanic being the experience provided by said mobs) - then Ethernere Tainted West Karana and Neriak static zones should be by far[/] the best zones to EXP in.

    Game mechanics-wise, not philosophy-wise.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  3. Battleaxe Augur

    https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...ading-grinding-xp-in-the-darkened-sea.214449/
    "As we move into The Darkened Sea, we've made a few changes to ensure that adventuring in the newest content will be the best way to gain experience to advance their characters in both levels and AA points. Playing in the newest content should always be the most attractive, and demolishing content from several expansions ago should not be the fastest way to advance your character."

    Normal decay was judged to be insufficient.

    Oversight? The didn't see a need given how many people were doing that content? Dunno.

    Serendipity provided them with another encouragement not to hang out in HA's? Good. Experiencing in static zones should have some advantages. I doubt that my Merc improves when I complete a collection too. A good piece of HA reward is not per mob kill. Its task completion reward.

    I'm sad if those are bugs. A better way of discouraging people from PLing others for profit needed to be found. For a year all you heard on /general was PL requests and PL offers. 50Kpp/hour. With Heroic Characters there's no need for level 105's to PL. Stick to level appropriate content and I'm pretty sure most of these issues go away.

    I'd like to see what they do done elegantly with nothing to explain and no loose ends.

    I would have preferred simply setting a three hour lockout as soon as you zoned into an HA and reducing all prior to TDS exp by 50% starting at level 101. But I don't know that doing that would have turned out any better. I'm in favor of SOE's objectives and it's amply clear some are not.
  4. Edrick Augur

    What on earth? Where did you come up with this false dilemma? You need to justify your last sentence, too.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  5. Cicelee Augur

    First off, everything I stated in that quote of me is strictly my opinion on the situation. As far as justification of that last sentence...

    I feel that the EQ developers and/or higher ups felt that they had to do something to increase the life of this current expansion. They knew they had created all the content that they could create in the time frame and man power given to them. They, based off of input given to them through various means, knew that they wanted to try and slow down the leveling process so that their content could try and last. After all, TDS is easier at lvl 105 than it is 101. Finally they wanted to actually have players play their content. They are on limited man power, and limited hours.

    Basically, they felt they wanted to create some artificial barriers to lengthen their content, and have people play in their content. They could have made each lvl past 100 an insane amount of XP that killing a million RoF mobs would not get you a level. They could have made it so that if a RoF mob gave 1000 XP (as an example) then a TDS mob would give 500,000 XP to lure players into TDS.

    Instead they chose to reduce XP on RoF mobs from 1000 to 100 (again illustrating, numbers obviously are off) instead of making it a ridiculously insane amount of XP to level up.

    Let me ask this- you work very hard at creating something. You want people to see it, right? You want people to use it, aye? You want people to notice it, correct? If you answer yes, then maybe you understand why EQ developers did what they did with old content to make you want to see the new...
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  6. segap Augur


    It does suck when you put a lot of work and effort in to something if no one notices. I do think the developers/content people take a lot of ownership and pride. That said, if they did (I don't know if they did) make the changes out of an emotional attachment to their latest creation, that is not the right thing to do. Nor is it healthy for the game long term.
    Yinla and Garshok like this.
  7. silku Augur


    It really is, and if that were the case it would send very mixed messages. For instance, hot zones were introduced and zones were chosen intentionally that were under used and under visited.. making it seem as if they were wanting to get people to go back into them for nostalgias sake. Then some of the more popular old world zones were revamped, again to create a sense of nostalgia and pull people back into the game. Then the recent expansion CoTF takes us into zones that mimic some of the old world content (neriak 4th gate, ethermere, bixie warfront, and even the most recent expansion is based on katta/the buried sea.) So why create a sense of nostalgia.. then create a system in which you going back to experience those beautiful (or not so beautiful) old zones is completely worthless to even those who con them as blue or light blue? I'd love to get a developer response as to the motivation of the exp nerf.. because forcing people into new expansions just to up sales is not good for the game either.
    Garshok and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  8. Harabakc Augur

    And hot zones change what, once a year? It's not as if they switch developers every time they make an expansion. Previous content is no less theirs than current is. Sure staff changes slightly as it goes, especially with the development of EQ Next and the flood of people that were sent there, but there's a chunk of people who've worked on this other stuff. The good of the game can't really be used as logic here, because clearly that's not a motivating factor in all decisions.

    Working under the assumption that nerfing the crap out of RoF exp is the only way to get people to play in TDS is a horribly sad thought. Why can't it be rewarding enough on it's own to attract people?
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  9. Battleaxe Augur

    I think they erred in creating content that was too nice to casual players. It's not the first time. See LDoN's, OMMs, and shrouded missions. In several cases it backfired and players not only enjoyed that content for its natural lifespan (the duration of an expansion) but they showed every sign of lingering and refusing to progress.

    That's a problem. It's not a pride of creating something and not having it appreciated problem. It's a "what is EverQuest" problem.

    Even when it has some instant gratification vending machine doesn't take long to complete a unit and get some credit casual content it's a character advancement progression game. "No it's not!", says Casual Carl.

    "Yes it is!", says the producer and the dev team who promptly unlimber their Nerf-a-tronic 5000 and adjust LDoN, OMM, ..., pre-TDS HA experience. That's what it takes sad to say. People just lub that path of least resistance.

    Now if you are bound and determined to criticize, criticize the probably unexpected oversights or if you prefer buglets. But (despite probably talking this over now and again for months) the need wasn't anticipated, it's easier to see pitfalls after than before, and they don't have a huge pile of assets that can try four things, test them all, and choose the best one.

    I agree with their objective and see some shortcomings as minor or not so bad.

    Others I'm afraid seek out shortcomings and see any as support for their position that all this should have been left alone.

    And perhaps another group accepts that there will be changes but believes every shortcoming should be eliminated if possible.

    It's nice to have opinions I'm guess. Devs, unfortunately, can only play Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda so much. In the end they have to act. When TDS was released and a handful of HA's in previous content was still the best place in the game to get experience it was time to act.
  10. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Well sometimes you are in favor of SOE's objectives.
    Xanumbik likes this.
  11. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    What Battleaxe forgets is that SOE wanted the Free to play peeps to be able to do the easier HA in CotF. That's why his alt ranger could tank.
    Xanumbik likes this.
  12. Xanumbik Augur

    Do TDS HAs scale to level?
  13. Nolrog Augur

    Yeah but it hasn't gotten to the grouper vs raider part yet.

    Yeah, LOL, there are people like that. It doesn't seem unique to EQ though. They seem to be on every forum I visit (both game related, sports related and even Amazon.com forums.)
  14. SoroxDrinal Elder

    The XP nerf has been horrible. Adding any level 101+ to a group of sub 101s nerfs their xp unless you are in CotF or higher. So imagine you have a group of 97, 97, 97, 100 playing together. As soon as the level 100 player dings, you have to move to CotF or the xp sucks. This is just plain stupid. RoF had lots of xp grind areas that are now useless outside progression. And if you move to CotF HAs, the entire mission is now keyed off the level 101. Oh joy...
    Yinla likes this.
  15. Benzarden Augur

    I assume you're strictly talking about Shard's Landing with your group of sub 100 characters. SL was a good grind zone, and still is a good grind zone for the level range that it was designed for. The other T1 RoF zones are really not very good grind zones. Maybe you were talking about something higher than T1 zones, but I doubt it because that would be a step up in difficulty, and you seem like the type that is pretty risk adverse.

    I took my level 100 mage alt to HoF yesterday, and duo'd in Epicenter for a bit. The experience was actually pretty good for the mage, despite being grouped with a level 105.

    So, you're having difficulty with level 101 scaled Gribble missions with a full group? If so, you need to reconsider your group makeup or spend some time to work on gear/augs. Maybe try some more CC so you are only taking on one mob at a time. I know first hand that the level 99 Mage Earth pet can tank 3 mobs at a time in the level 105 scaled Gribble missions. The CotF HAs are ultra low risk, high reward. Prefer grinding in a static zone? Try Neriak Fourth Gate for experience and named.
  16. TitusMaximuss Lorekeeper

    For me this expansion is a non-starter. I have 6 characters and I only bought the expansion on my main. I typically get him leveled and AA'd up so I can do the main expansion's starter zone. The major issue for me is that I can't level up my main now. I don't want to buy the expansion on all my 6 accounts and I'd have trouble with leveling up my main solo or even duo in the new expansion because my gear sucks. As a non-raider this was the final nail in the coffin. Oh well with the SoE buyout and this new expansion its probably for the best that I finally give up this blasted game.
  17. Karthanon Augur

    Or mention of the filthy casuals. Oh, wait.

    Damned casual players, wrecking it for everyone else. Amirite?!
    Garshok likes this.
  18. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Why can't you level up your main toon? If you are having problems in the new expansion just level up your toon in CotF then try the new expansion again once you have leveled some. Also sounds like you haven't gotten the T2 gear from CotF which is better then tier 1 TDS gear. That would help you in the new expansion also.
  19. Ratbo Peep Augur

    If they had just nerfed the DH/ Gribble HA's so that they would not scale past level 100 - problem solved.
    Esperience decay in older content has always been a "natural thing" - never before "forced" like this.
    This "artificial nerf" ruined most rewards for completing things even 1 or 2 expansions back.
    Instead they:
    Ruined RoF for everyone.
    Ruined Evolving the Tear.
    Ruined Merc Experience.
    Ruined "Replay Value"
    Destroyed any desire to go back and finish "Savior" of any of the previous zones.
    Added enough hit-points to TDS trash mobs to bore a group to tears.
    Reduced drops, currency, and spells - to the point of "insulting" us.

    It was just stated by a Dev that "levels are raised so that people can experience older content".
    Is that still true?
    Which side of the mouth has the truth "today"?
    Will that "truth" change again tomorrow?
    Or did you just mean "so they can experience older content - with no reward for doing so"
    With all this insanity that's gone on..... I think the new owners will take one look at EQ and put it out of it's misery. (perhaps rightly so)
    In fact I'm starting to care less and less - as bumbling is "fixed" by even more bumbling.
    -Rat
    PS: Sony may have made a smart move - and flushed their toilet. :D
    Garshok and Klotar-TSM like this.
  20. segap Augur


    T1 tds gear is essentially equivalent to T2 cotf, but also dropable and non-prestige. It's also easier to get some of the slots for tds t1 for the items that are not on the cotf merchant (named drop only in t2 zones/missions).

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