PvP Debuff Serums and PVP Debuff Grenades - Investigated

I think everyone is missing Spytle's point--he is saying that these items aren't being used by a la so how are they ruining PVP? That is a fair assessment and a good question. He is trying to understand what the community is saying from an empirical stance and not a suppositional one. This is striking some people's nerves a bit too sharply. The point of this topic is not tanking effectiveness, dupped cash or use of HT stuff.

So now that you have this data, what are your next steps regarding serums? It seems you are considering adjustments--is there something you can discuss at this time?

--YZ

Right I don't think serums ruin pvp in anyway. There a good substitute for healers that dont have a tank but having a tank is much better

Thanks for clarifying what I am trying to illustrate. you got it.

Yes, check the other announcement for serums and see.

Simply put your data supports all our assertions and I'm honestly dumbfounded you can not see it. Here's some points for you to consider.

They're expensive: As has been said they're quite expensive to craft for the average user and probably more than 80% of the PVP population has never crafted or used a serum in their PvP lifetime. Only the upper elite can afford to craft them in quantity.

It's not all the PvP community uses them: The complaints are about these upper elites that can afford to SPAM these items. It's only the certain incredibly rich that can afford to gulp these down to that level. Made in any large quantity it becomes prohibitively expensive for all but the top 1% (if even that).

Their usage can [used] be spammed: What does a tank do? Essentially the same as a debuff serum. Now, these serums were on a cooldown that could be spammed as fast or faster than a tank's cleanse skill. Because of this spamability in many cases probably 100+ serums were consumed during a single match.

What does your numbers show? That SO many serums were used by this small population that they were able to average out to SEVEN SERUMS per match. When 90+% of those matches that you're 'accounting' for used ZERO serums as they're simply too expensive for the average user to even consider. While my numbers are conjecture they're probably not that far off. We're talking about 95% of serum use done in less than 10% of the matches played in total. In matches where 7+ were used you're probably down to less than 1% of all matches played. NO ONE has said they're an issue for entry level or even mid tier matches as no one can afford it. It's those who will take pride in winning nearly every match and are max geared and will do quite a lot to accomplish that when it becomes a problem as then it becomes the FILTHY RICH vs well off.

The bottom line becomes how much you, as the developers, want this game to be consumable driven in the PvP state. With all the damage, debuff, serums, health/power, consumables available and their low cooldown times PvP has become something where you can nearly BUY wins. Take a look at some of the logs for your higher tier PvP teams and you'll notice a trend in these matches. Your highest teams will be using consumables like there's no tomorrow and yet have just as large of a supply for their next match. It's pure conjecture where they get their funding from, but at this point in time there's really no competing against a team who's willing to use mass amounts of consumables during a match. The issue is most of these teams have nearly an unlimited supply and will use them against any team in mass on any team remotely near their level. How one would legitimately amass that level of wealth and to be able to continuously spend on serums is something to ponder but not a topic for this thread.

One of the 'issues' here is the population (at least on USPC) is fairly small. Due to this a greater percentage of the population has been touched by these teams who are consumable driven and end up getting stomped. So it's actually a very small portion of the population that uses these items but these are the ones who use it consistently and, to some level, we're looking for a more level playing field for those who don't have hundreds of millions to be spending on serums. (among other issues)

dude chill they already anounced puttn a cooldown on serums and debuff grenades. they even share a cooldown with a soda! pvpers will have to choose wisely (soda or serum) so im betting even elites will not use them much anymore. this is now a non-issue and ur complaining still.

I always quantified that with the notion of "top" as you referred to it. But, allow me to show you.

There. Do you see it now? I'm not sure there is a lot of room for misinterpretation there, but perhaps you didn't mean to call "the top 100" - whatever that is - cheaters. /shrug

Regardless, your points have been read. At this point you're repeating yourself on something I feel I have answered plainly and as much as I can. If you have nothing new, thanks for your opinions.

You missed the point... You can re-read the bottom line. It's not just about serums, but about consumables in general. Serums are (were) just one component to this consumable issue. While the fix does effectively limit serum use, all the other consumables are just as spammable and effective. Although these other consumables are much less expensive and more readily available to most players. Additionally it was to point out how throwing a blanket statement (as Spytle's initial post on how limited use serums are) for a small, but well defined, issue was off base. When looking at data you have to section it off, trying to apply a concept to the whole population is a bit absurd. Kind of like saying less than 10% of the whole game population has full T4 PvE armor, thus we don't need more PvE content. I hope in the future the developers will take the time to actually look into the issues that arise vs using brief blanket statements to try and insist there's no problem.

While I may not fully agree with the fix they put in, not something I will discuss here, it does solve the issue that arose here.

yeah the other consumables are cheap as hell. i like static grenades sometimes. but they are so cheap that anyone can make and use them.

You mad, Bro? It's okay you lost a few matches but sooner or later you'll get one. I don't like the serums and I don't make or use them and that's where the skill comes in. I'm full T4 PvP and PvE, work 45+hrs a week and got my gear with no complaints. Just playing with players that know their role and get the job done without using serums.

No you did not. Honesty, try it some time. So back to where we were... You stated that I said everyone is a cheater... I guess thats your math. So the top 100 out of 1000000000 or however many players = everyone?Thanks for clearing that up. Do you see it now? Perhaps if your math and logic and ability to actually listen match your flaming... ahh never mind you lost all respect from many people as is.

The reign of chaos is over. Like I said, if you have something new to add...

In the meantime, read your own words if you care to sort it out. I don't care to as I am confident in my own comprehension of our discussion. Take care.

Thanks for the information and 'fix" to the cooldowns, as that is all we asked for really.

Actually, if anyhing he has gained my respect for coming out and addressing the masses; especially people who just drive their point, even though they are wrong. Also, your statement does exactly like he said. Interesting how you omitted that quote from your quote of his response.

I stopped playing this game a long while back and I've come back not that long ago. I'm fairly new to a lot of things things and just been starting to get my head around some of it. I've read your first post and from what you seem to be getting at is, they are not being used that often, so why worry about it. It's a valid point but if it's not getting used often, then why have it at all. Showing that only a small group of people use them means that small group have more of an advantage over others. Why add these serums etc in the first place?

i have a problem with the broker, too much lag, its very frustrating, it needs to be changed i think, i dont have this problem with the mail or marketplace

this an argument over something every single one of us has access to yet almost no one uses.
heck with new gear coming out, i can not justify the cost of the bits used to make them.

madness! madness I say! I like it.

воу воу а тут руские есть :?

im not sure where to address this issue but is anyone else getting irritated with people leaving the 1v1 matches and screwing other people out of their marks? i think there should be a way to make these people stay in the match and not able to leave or get rid of the "match was not long enough so no marks have been awarded" or whatever the message says.there are people (like myself and my league) who have put in a lot of effort into gearing up for pvp and feel cheated out of hard earned marks . thanks

to debuff or not to debuff is the question it's not do I or do I not it's when do I need to what kinda tank and I up against how many controllers do they have do we stand a chance to win this match . wait they got a fire tank I will throw a debuff it will protect the whole team 7 players plus it''s own self , oh wait its a ice tank it will only protect 3 players plus its self . oh wait its a earth tank it will only protect 3 players plus it's self , why is a debuff so important when the characters are so off balance with each other one hold tons of health , one hold the ability to reflect and buff it's damage the last one can absorb as long as it's cool downs are use in a flow that works yet we wait for the cool down to take affect on earth and we take mad damage hoping we can absorb more as we receive it we beat that fire tank down oh man he just did one heal move recovered health still has power left pops another power 50 % health recovered fight is going to get harder oh he pops another one and bam full 100% health back if not pops a cola to gain power heal heal heal , earth pops a super charge goes in the ball takes a single heal comes out takes damage where are the balances here? there is none but you keep telling us there is I play , Earth , Fire , and Ice as my tanks and I tell you from playing them all plus a gadgets controller them 3 tanks are not the same Fire is way OP in the game hands down not just in PVP it's the only tank in the game we all call 100% OP and has a power move we just can't defeat in pvp 7 player immunity when the rest have 3 , lets check that data and show a graph to it your so fluently skilled in that department it's not a low blow it's a general question commonly debated on all the DC servers in open world in fact it causes arguments it's the 2nd most talked about open world conversation to the T4 gear being moved to T garbage in this new whack update