Precision DPS

The best art to run as dps with switch role is gemini. I have been playing few days tht way and it's amazing, prec dmg with venom,soul cloak and gemini on healer role, all dmg mods, prec augments and adaptative augments,all sp on prec. I lost like 3-4k dps bcus I was using before AI,venom and cog on dps role but it's ok bcus tht way I can keep spamming my sc and filling my teammates' sc. I think anyone can do this but only if u r healer, I think as tank u would get a lot of aggro. And I haven't tested with might power, someone should try

He's referring to powerset types, not actual current role.

https://ibb.co/jDKMPpp
https://ibb.co/fd4Lxvj

Right. I'm specifically concerned about controller powersets abusing the weapon buffs and venom wrist dispenser in controller role. Also I'm concerned that the power recovered will be enough to circumvent both the venom wrist dispenser and pet power recovery penalties.

I think you're stressing yourself over nothing. If a dps wants to go into controller role to use this then they lose the 10% damage buff from the dps role. That's -10% of every power and every weapon attack. Second, you would have to replace an existing artifact to use this, you're not going to get rid of venom and you're not going to get rid of gemini, this artifact has zero precision on it so you're going to lose whatever passive precision buff you're getting from your third artifact or supercharge buff. Third, as Blackfalcon said, you're going to have to replace a power in your loadout that does no damage and just grants the power buff for yourself, you cannot use this to clip your weapon ie: Flurry shot is 4 hits, you clip it at 2, you get 2 hits and not the last 2. So yeah, it's better off to stay in dps stance for the 10% buff and also run an artifact and loadout that actually increases your damage. Chill out, the sky isn't falling and you don't have to switch to a controller powerset. It's a buff to controllers by giving them another way to buff the group, a long forgotten reason the controller role exists.

PS Great thread. Glad the arguing stopped and minds are coming together for theorycrafting. Some of the guides in the guides section haven't been updated in years and I think we're due. It seems people do a lot of testing but also keep it to themselves in fear of getting "nerfed" or losing their place on the scoreboard.. or i guess money. (Still don't know why every might group doesn't run Tetra, the damage increase collectively would beat out most artifacts that increase personal dps.)

Noone else seems to care so I figure I guess maybe im wrong. From what's reported on test it seems to be doing crappy for controlling anyway so maybe I'm the only one who thinks it's got potential

I think it has potential for a controller too. They're always looked at as batteries but the defense debuff indirectly increases everyones damage and the prec buff only affected the minority of precision dps so I'm glad they got a buff to might dps as well as healers/tanks. Was talked about briefly in this thread Pre Revamp Support Roles. Glad they had the same idea and looking forward to see how it plays out on test.

devs can you buff arrow storm weapon mastery so precision has a good aoe ranged attack and plus arrow storm looks really awesome

If your focus on artifacts is to buff the group, wouldn't it be better to run the tetra for a might buff?

It's not about losing placement in the board, it's about getting an unnecessary nerf. Things that are broken SHOULD be nerfed. Things that aren't should be left alone but you know how this game works...

Prec vs Might dps scaling is completely out of wack. artifact bonus for prec plus the damage from dw into bow no way in heck can might keep up with single target. this has been an issue for some time now. Im not asking you to nerf prec because people enjoy it. But show some love to might users- and dont force us to use an iconic power (which still doesnt keep up with prec with a 160 artifact "solar flame")

Please do something about this soon because its very unbalanced and biased towards prec users. Which is making it not fun to play as as top tier might - and we aren't switching to prec after this huge investment of artifacts and augments.


A serious balance is due.

Are the people getting trounced by prec 100% sure they're not simply using loadouts/rotations/artifacts that are kinda trash? Cuz... the majority of other might users I see tend to be using loadouts/rotations/artifacts that are kinda trash... especially post-JLD.

Balance is due.

there is no question about it. top tier might users are using 160's of the appropriate artifacts. im not going to list them
because this is a no brainer. Prec single target range destroys might. Talking top tier players of both might and prec. im not talking about noobs. So dont bring in trash artifacts into the equation. im talking top artifacts for both might vs prec. The results are there. Might needs a buff. to keep up with prec single range dps.

why do you think in majority of youtube uploads showing elite raids beaten there is at least 3-4 prec dps......talking SGe.

So to answer you question. Im not comparing trash might artifacts to top tier prec artifacts. top vs top in everything. single target prec is out of balance vs might.

balance is due.

There are now exactly three "top-tier" artifacts for ST Might for most situations (same for Prec) and EoG/Scrap aren't amongst them, yet I see "top-tier" might users run them frequently.

Some individual powers need buffs but, in general, might can do fine vs prec.

Because it's mainstream af. It's the MMO equivalent of "netdecking." People who would otherwise not be able to build a loadout to save their lives latch onto the highly public and effective prec loadouts that are out there. Since the same prec concepts apply to every power, they're the most common vs individual powers' might loadouts that are more power-specific, require more in depth knowledge of the given power to come up with, and require a lot more testing. Also, because the gen pop has latched onto the idea that prec is better it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy, with some people latching onto it and stating "prec dps" in lfg chat like that somehow means their worth their salt. It was the same back in the day when people thought specific tank powers were better (and still do to an extent).

Do some powers need adjusting? Maybe. Is might, in general, disadvantaged? No.

Yes, prec dps is mainstream. Yes, might loadouts take much more time and testing to come up with something great. Yes, might is still effective. Yes, i love might because it requires more skill amongst other reasons. Thats all not the point though.

The point is that prec dps single target range is out of balance vs might in that same situation and balance is due.
The balance issue has started from the artifact "venom wrist." and the damage that a dual wield flurry shot can do in the right hands.
Might in the right hands is very effective but that doesnt change the fact that vs prec single target range they are no where near balanced. "Doing fine vs prec" is not the goal. Balance and options should be. Do you have to be prec to get this content done?Absolutely not- again thats not the point.

I can only really speak for my specific power (Fire) but I don't have an issue having the same or better output as optimal prec users. Maybe some powers have issues, I'd have to use them to know. Since the general public has long considered fire to be poop-tier at everything, I'm well aware that most people have no clue whatsoever what they're talking about, however.

A big part of why there's a bit more gripe post-JLD is some might users clinging to EOG for DPS. DPS EOG is ******* dead. It's garbage now, except for pretty specific and perfectly coordinated situations. JLD punishes/prohibits bunching, forces constant movement, and the SC changes just pwn EOG in general for DPS users. Also, both EoG and Scrap are filth in terms of stat buffs compared to Solar, Verum, and Tetra. To be honest, EoG has always been kinda poop, it just worked because Atlantis fights = sit in one spot, barely moving, for 10min and do your rotation over and over again, virtually uninterupted, while being fed nigh infinite SC and benefiting from the DPS of those around you.

Prec users have long used Cog + AI + Venom (sometimes EoG) vs Might users who were generally using Solar + Scrap + EoG (sometimes Tetra). In that alone, there's a massive stat difference, with Prec users min:maxing their DPS stats and Might users sacrificing DPS stats to gain general (good at the time and the only thing at our disposal) Artifact gimmicks. As stated, this used to be viable because we could spam EoG and never had to move but that's not the case anymore. Prec using Cog + AI + Venom vs Might using Solar + Verum + Tetra is a much more even matchup, especially considering that for Prec to use Verum they have to give up another arguably better Artifact where might doesn't give up anything, gains a second (better) Robot Sidekick-tier DPS buff, and more DPS stats than we previously had access to.

Note: Even if you're not using Amplified Heat Vision (eg. raid trash AoE loadout), you should still be using Solar Amplifier (look at the stats buffs)

Then, more importantly, is the loadout/rotation a given Might user is using. Prec loadouts are **** simple to build/execute vs Might loadouts, that have a ridiculous number of potential permutations, many of which will seem really great but might be 50-100% crappier than the "ideal" loadout/rotation.

I'm not saying some powers don't have cause to gripe but I strongly oppose the argument that might, in general, needs to be buffed. I mean sure... go ahead... outright break my DPS... but I just really don't think most people are playing their powers to their fullest potential. I wasn`t for a long while, I see other people in my own power using bizarre random loadout choices, and I feel like I have to constantly talk people off the edge in terms of jumping for a completely loopy build/approach or artifact setup (for some reason, people have a harder time wrapping their heads around DCUO min:max than they do in other MMOs/RPGs). My experience and my gut lead me to believe that the majority of the people complaining about this, and this isn't meant as an insult in any way, aren't playing or using their powers to their full potential... I know I wasn't and accepting that helped me to become a much better player by communicating with others in my power, testing their advice, and adopting new and improved best practices while still always assuming I can be doing better.

It's ultimately extremely frustrating to see about zero threads asking "how can I do better in my power to keep up with prec?" and multiple "prec is broken, nerf it or buff might" threads.

I appreciate your reply Allen. Im happy to see you taking this serious.
You are speaking of one power set. Which so happens to be fire and fire has one of the strongest single target range damage might burns. So of course you dont see the flaws. Up against any mediocre prec user youll be fine and of course maybe even beat them only an average one though. Every power is situational thats fine- its always been like that. But when an artifacts boosts prec dps soo much that it makes it unbalanced something must be done. Please try and see this from another power sets point of view. If you dont have that experience then ... really how can you speak on behalf of the rest of us?...

If you only have experience with fire i respect that you are being honest. This is on a general balance. Not just for fire which i will repeat has one of the strongest single target might dps l/o- thats a known fact to all experienced players.
I understand your frustration when you see randoms posting nerf this buff that nerf this and so on.... thats also a frustration for me.
Im not a random im a very dedicated experienced player since 2011 with over 455sp and still lots to get in this new dlc. I have multiple hours on test dummies and i wouldnt have posted on this topic if didnt believe something must be done to correct this issue.

Thank you for the time you have put in on this discussion with me. Hopefully our little rebuttal shines light on this issue for devs to look at. Balance is due wither you agree with me or not. Its blatantly obvious to any experienced player.

Again, The point in general is single target range good prec user vs a good might user (with appropriate artifacts as you suggested) will always have better damage per second with the way things are set up as of now. There is no way around it.
This is because of artificat buffs and a very over powered flurry shot.

Haha thanks for the obvious condescension but I do "fine" against more than just "mediocre" or "average" prec users. Have also played since 2011 and currently have ~430 SP.. But that's besides the point. Neither the time people started playing the game nor their SP is indicative of their capabilities/knowledge/understanding. The epeen card is meaningless, especially with the knowledge/skill level amongst high CR/SP players being varied in the extreme

Regardless of motive, you're still essentially asking for them to nerf prec by nerfing Venom, which is something they've already said they won't do. Calling for general might vs Prec adjustments is pointless as it would only lead to more problems. Kinda gotta show the reciepts on individual powers, as I previously hinted at, to make these kinds of requests. "x power sucks vs prec" is not helpful to anyone, especially when there's a solid chance there's a better way for that power to be utilized. As such, the line of discussion this thread has taken, as with all the Might QQ threads, is basically yelling into the wind. If people actually want meaningful adjustments, they need to say "Here's the best loadout for this specific power, dealing x damage/sec, which is problematic because prec does more," thus allowing people who might know more about the power the opportunity to jump in and say "lolwut... um... no... that's not close to the best loadout" or at the very least for devs to be provided with a clearer understanding of what they need to address, if anything. General revamps aren't good for anyone.

Thanks for your replies.
My opinions are out there.
Everyone can make their own choice.

Cheers.

One thing you need to look at is that most prec loadouts are exactly same and don't differ too much from each other while different might powers have completely unique loadouts.

Prec is broken but if you could do same damage with multiple different weapons I think people wouldn't complain as much.
Might powers like hard light, fire, celestial, gadgets, mental(to some extent), nature and others I might have forgotten about can keep up fairly well on ST. The other powers like electric might be bad on ST but good on aoe so each power has its advantage in different situations.

In my opinion its not that might can't keep up with precision but more about certain powers not being as strong on ST as others and this problem will never be fixed by nerfing prec or bringing out a new artifct which buffs might since then same thing can be repeated with a might power that excels in both aoe and ST.

What we need is a buff for other weapons so that other loadouts and playstyles can become viable and make each playstyle more unique the same way it is for might dps currently.