Old Content too easy for High CR Players and Boring

It's actually fine as is.

As others have mentioned, do feel free to take gear off next time you go in.

Hope that helps!

@OP, do you really think clamping content will actually make it less boring to run? Seems to me that if you know what is going to spawn where, you can still face roll content and there would be no surprises.

Clamping content wont work. Adding it to all levels creates the I don't need to gear, so players lose interest. But making it optional means players wont play it and it will become like all other half finished content and waste precious time from the devs balancing it only to abandon it later.

I'm not against clamping idea, I'm against it for this game. It just wont work.

The problem with the "option" that I see is past history. You have been around long enough .. remember the nightmare we endured when they first gave us the "DESERTER PENALTY"? The main reason the thing was created was because on the PvP side an issue occurred where during 1 vs 1 lair battles when it became painfully obvious to a number of players there was no way that could win they just quit. Now the player that didn't quit still won but the issue was because their opponent didn't stay till the end it did not count toward the feat. That was during the period where they had changed PvP so if you lost you got no reward so those players that knew they had no chance of coming back and winning simply left to get on with something else where they night actually get a reward.

Well I have no clue if it was simply because it was not possible to only have the penalty affect PvP or it was a matter of the Dev team not wanting to take the time to add the extra coding but.. EVERYONE got that 10 minute penalty and it applied no matter what the reason behind a player leaving a mission was. Then the screaming started when players were disconnected and when they came back... had to endure a ten minute penalty before they could que up for missions again.. hell I personally had that happen as the alert I was on was about to do the final boss battle. I logged back in and tried to rejoin my team. which was actually waiting to see if I'd come back and discovered I couldn't join ANYTHING for another 9 minutes. Took a good deal of complaining to get that adjusted and now the penalty is more or less a joke.... went from ten minutes to 10 seconds and does not stop anyone from quitting anything. On top of that ... after a good deal of complaining PVP side the "no reward" if you don't win policy was removed and eliminated the original problem to begin with

Oh and I have a very simple solution to the whole "Its such a pain to have to remove gear" issue as well. Last I checked we were all entitled to own and place as many as 8 armories in a lair. Why can't the OP or anyone else that wants to do older content and no "be bored" just put down an armory where that gear is already removed and save it for when they do THAT content? Heck if they have enough Marks they could even go out and buy a set of lower CR gear to wear while they do those missions. Click one button and tada the Op and his buddy are the same combat rating. Seems like a much simpler idea than imposing a stat clamp on every player in game because ONE guy gets bored running older content at CR 200+ does it?

Or perhaps the existing option of using LFG to find equal cr players and not getting angry when you get random from a random queue.

If you think many people are going to queue optionally clamped content any more than you're going to find like minded individuals im LFG I think you're delusional.

If you want the challenge just take off gear.

Being an Alt-oholic, I guess the solutions to such problems seem easy to me.

There is always creating new characters at the same time with your friend and reserving playing those characters only when you are gaming together.

Another option is to take off some of your gear until you have stats that are around the level of your friends.
Doing this doesn't appear to actually reduce your CR, but it does reduce your STATs which will make the content more challenging.

Of course, the whatever the current unlocked "mini-open world" and Event content (for now Titans stuff) will also level equalize.

The sidekick'ing and mentor'ing mechanics in THE CITY (aka "City of Heroes") was great for this kind of thing.
Sidekick to temporarily level-up one other character in your squad to a level or two below you.
Mentor to temporarily level-down your character to another character's level.

Here's the thing, the so-called pro-clamp people are most definitely not vocal enough to be given that much consideration to do work that would have very little to no return on investment. Adding clamped versions of the same instances amounts to double the amount of work they have to do when they go in and re-adjust instances and NPCS every time we get a significant boost in strength (augments, artifacts etc). It just doesn't seem worth the while.

they tried adding stat banding but people cried without understanding so no matter what this kind of thing will always happen

The current difficulty level for lower level content that is no longer relevant to a higher level cr is perfectly fine where it’s already at. There’s no reason to start trying to fix something that isn’t broken to begin with.

I agree with Quantile at least now you can achieve the feats in the old content easier than you could before. why break something that isn't broken!?

Yes...a huge pain to open your inventory and click on 4-8 pieces of gear which automatically drop into open spots in your inventory, then can be re applied by activating an armory. Much less pain to spend a lot of Development and testing hours to make a change that more than 1/2 of the community would hate and possibly leave the game over (update 47 anyone?)

How is this still a discussion?

And to agree with what a few others have said, most times if go into older content and see there are low level toons I'll ask "you mind if I blast through this stuff?"....I've never gotten a 'yes...please go very slowly and let me struggle' answer.

Reinheld

First off....do you get nosebleeds sitting that high up on your high-horse?

Second, you are talking about something different than what the OP is talking about. He's referring to enjoyment of the content, which he is not having due to his ability to blow through too easily. You are talking about the content being relevant. Content remaining relevant would mean that it would deliver marks, or loot or feats or advance the storyline similar to how the end game content does. That was not the OP's comment. The OP's complaint would be easily addressed by removing his gear, or as he suggests via some kind of stat clamp or difficulty adjustment. Neither of these will make the content relevant...just more difficult and time consuming (to some more enjoyable). Now I guess it could be argued that content could be re-released with updated storylines...I mean how is the FOS Raid trio supposed to be relevant to the same story when Zod has been out of the Phantom Zone for years now....even teaming up with us and SuperGirl in BBS. I sometimes even forget there is a Brainiac story back at the beginning of the game, because we've defeated him so many times now, and have had so many more pressing threats since then.

The lower Tier missions are just that....lower tier. Once you have gotten to the higher tiers, the lower missions are less relevant by definition. If you were in Grad school, and went to go sit in a kindergarten class, would you expect the teacher to start asking the kids questions about Calculus because you are there? Talk about Latin instead the alphabet? Analyse Shakespeare's sonnets instead of discussing the difference between a square and rectangle? Maybe you would...or maybe you would chastise the teacher for not challenging the kindergarteners enough....or maybe you would be good with getting a lobotomy before entering the class so it would be challenging to you at the proper level. Personally I choose none of those. If I went by a kindergarten class, it would be to observe how my kids or niece/nephew is doing and if I did interact with them, I'd sit in the little chair, read their 'see spot run' books and if they get stuck on something I might help them through it if needed. And if they get knocked out during the boss fight, I'd light that bastard up!....whoops, slipped out of the metaphor.

Either way....there is a way to make old content enjoyable and more challenging, remove your gear....only reprogramming is going to make it relevant again. And that's not what the OP was talking about.

You are right on one thing though....the game itself has changed. Not sure how long it will be around, but when it goes it won't be due to low level content not being relevant...it will be micro-transactions and 'want it now' players putting up with buggy content, dull storylines and lackluster DLC built around squeezing a few extra nickles out of the game that does it in.

Reinheld

Adding clamps to content i feel would make players abandon it even more then they already do once they're past it's relevance. I like going to back to older elite content still feels fun to me.

See OP, like clockwork.

Content being relevant is usually apart of the satisfaction players get as they play. In this gen, irrelevant content equates to unpleasant experiences (for players, the absence of fun). Too many people won't even bother with content if it doesn't add to their player progression (which is a core part of enjoyment in DCUO) . And please stop, in general, it's common knowledge about the many problems that come with stale levels (instances, missions etc.) in MMO's (DCUO is affected).

Taking your armor off to simulate challenge is one of the most asinine ideas I have ever heard come from this community (this was years ago mind you). And still, this crap is still being used as an argument. It's sick the way many of you think on this topic. Players do not want to simulate (pretend) challenge, they want it woven into the game organically (this is common sense). They want a an experience that kicks their butt every now and then as they level. Content that also gives them a breathing room to experiment with the rules of the game (i.e. what kind of cool stuff they can pull off). Content where they get rewards that are representative of the challenges they face.

Note: OP this community loves to justify why it's a necessary evil to take player experimentation away. You can't really experiment when your over-powered monster of a player is ripping through your mission (not exclusive to one shots either) can you?

Bottom Line: As I said, this community gorked this game with its rationalizing nonsense. Players should never have to use methods that undermine one of its games core principles, which is to earn armor to advance in stats (i.e. to improve their own efficacy at completing missions). Now, if the people here aren't invested in the new player experience then they have no business voicing their views on the matter. I can guarantee you their will be many comments here that translate to "I don't care OP".

Why are you acting like your post addresses the OP's original complaint? Again, he was talking about having fun or a challenge...which has nothing to do with the content being 'relevant'. Relevant and being a challenge have nothing to do with each other. The daily missions on TT island are 'relevant' and weren't a challenge on day 1 of the content.

Organic growth and challenge is already there... Content is challenging while you are at level. FOS's, Batcaves, A&B, NGN, etc... as well as many Duos and alerts are challenging at level....you progress and they get a bit easier....you progress more and they get very easy. Taking off your gear does lower your stats...and your ability to blow through content, although to really make it effective, you can drop 500 bucks to respec and NOT put in more than the 30-50 SP you would have had when you went through the content originally. Or run recent content, there is more challenge there, even in Reg runs. Heck DWF and the last boss on BBS are 2 years old or so and are still a wipe fest on most queue groups.

This one doesn't even make sense. First off, it's cute that you talk about the community trying to justify a point of view when you just posted 2 long posts trying to justify your opposing point of view. Also, why would you need to experiment in low level content? If you want to try some new things out, go ahead and try them in current content, try them in PVP battles, try them against sparring targets. Are you concerned that if you experimented in higher level content your experiment would not leave you at the top of the DPS board? Better to do it in low level content right? Avoid any undo embarrassment when your experiment doesn't pan out?

Huh? So you say one of the core principles IS to advance stats and gear to make completing missions more effective, but you also say that things should remain challenging after you've advanced. Which is it....just so I'm clear?

Not the case. Most of the replies were comments about why things should or should not be clamped....I don't think any of them had to do with NOT caring about the new player experience or the OP's comment. I, for one, have posted several times that we should be able to set an adjustable queue size or walk ins on all instances so that you don't end up with a couple of high level goons in a run steamrolling content while actual new players(not low level alts) are in the instance. Trouble is that many of the higher level players need things (feats, gear, collections, etc....) out of old content and with the exception of a few instances you have to queue in to get those done. Now if you want to talk about that, it's a different conversation.

Reinheld

Been a long time since I've seen one of these kinds of threads pop back up lol.

They Tried Clamping GU 46-Backfired.

People Suggested Clamping Content-Backfired and couldn't be agreed upon by the community.

People Suggested to Scale Content-Very unlikely.

People suggested walking in portals for old content, so people can have their clamped content and people could still solo stuff- Walkins are dead, never happening again. And, as others pointed out this has the big chance to drop que times.

Even if they did make it challenging, what new rewards or new shiny will players be given for their hard work? If I know this community right, people won't bother with old content if it has the exact same rewards; or even if it has new rewards but with bad RNG attached.

DCUO with it's playerbase. Not to mention the lack of Development Resources going towards clamping, you add all of this up; it's very unlikely that the developers will make old content relevant or challenging for you.

Wait, Wait...
Am I reading this right?

Disney is gonna send their Super Hero Games to the Market and DCUO will be in trouble? Are we talking about the Disney, ya know... The exact same people who pulled the Plug on Marvel Super Heroes online?

I understand your point about clamping, but the very idea that Disney could make a game that hurts dcuo and it's playerbase is something I strongly disagree with and don't foresee happening.

Why do people still think the first iteration of CR Differential was stat clamping? Was it because the words "stat flattening" was used in the same update?

The CR Differential that hit test in the first iteration was a one way street. Only the enemy NPCs were strong against you when they were above you. When you hit the same CR or above, they were at their normal whatever calculated "flattened" stats. So people freaked because they no longer had the same exponential advantage they had before. That big bad boss had a ton of stats that was the reason why soloing was no longer capable. When the freak out was at its highest, they quickly did the reverse to the players advantage. Which, coupled with AMs, resulted in face rolling content even easier.

Which leads to clamping threads.

In a way, CR differential was, in outcome, the same as clamping, because your stats didn't matter, it was the number that judged your strength, but was no where NEAR the same thing.

Edit: BTW, "Stat Flattening" was where they took the start point, moved it up a little and the highest level and just made the curve a straight line with the stats.

This always happens in these threads. Nothing has ever been "clamped" other than, i believe some open world areas like age of justice after we entered with a higher cr. Not sure if this was fixed or if it even actually happened. I just remember seeing a thread on it.

A stat clamp is when you look at your stats and there are red numbers next to the white numbers. I believe crits are clamped in pvp, for example.

After the success of Spiderman, I suggest you hold your tongue on that lol

That right there is exactly what I mean.

The First Iteration literally resulted in meaningless stats and no matter how high you were..... Soloing/Face-rolling was an impossibility.

Sure, on a technical stand-point. Stat-Flattening and Stat-Clamping are two very different systems, but that comparison becomes irrelevant.

What's relevant is as you pointed out in your post, The Backlash from people having next to no exponential advantage during Stat-flattening was a big blow to DCUO. Which means no matter if it was Stat-flattening's original implementation or Stat-clamping like the OP's suggesting, another big blow to DCUO's population would come about from it unless the developers implemented a work-around that didn't affect DCUO's small community.


I've been in Games like Guild Wars 2, they do have stat-clamping; but it was made with stat-clamping in areas in mind. Not only that, but Guild Wars 2 also has a fairly large population and rewards it's players for coming back to old content.

DCUO on the other hand, implemented going back to old content very poorly, and not to mention because people enjoyed soloing content so long before GU 46 took place; the community became divided on this issue with players enjoying the soloing and face-rolling, but others hate it because they want to enjoy content as it first came out.

And that right there underlines exactly why the developers will never revert back to the original stat-flattening or do stat-clamping, the community's far too divided; and not to mention, everyone generally has the idea that DCUO's population wouldn't be able to sustain another big GU 46 era kind of hit.



I appreciate the clarification btw, thanks for setting the record straight on the matter of CR differential and Stat-clamping.