New season of pvp

i noticed you mixed up your terms a bit here. in a previous reply, you said that you grind in pvp and you progress in pve. now, it looks as if you're saying it as grinding and progression are factors that can occur in either or. so, what are you really trying say? if you're going to say that we progress in pve, that means every ounce of skill we develop correlates with our performances in both pve and pvp, which isn't 100% correct. because the skill tactics we use in pve apart from pvp very much differentiate from each other. let's say i'm a punchline pvper against an android pvper, i beat the guy in android 1v1, is that not progression? how about me being a tank capable of beating an equivalently geared healer? we don't progress in pvp, really? do you deny that's even possible? it very much is if you do. considering how we grind to develop our characters in dcuo, your analogy of chess is a very poor example of how this game has played out since its release. comparing athletics would be a much better example in terms of how we can speak of who's bigger, faster, or stronger in terms of all of us in dcuo. chess is purely mental, sports is physical and mental. with that analogy i laid out, you'll probably say dcuo pvp is all physical i bet because of the advantages people may have with higher tier gear. but, there are lower-tiered players out there who thoroughly understand counter-mechanics in pvp that are capable of beating someone of a higher tier, which is where the mental factor and progression you speak of comes into play. that is every reason why i feel there's no validity in your statement. question, how will there be a more true form of progression in pvp with this upcoming update if everything is balanced from top to bottom?

PvE counts as progression due to you have to complete the instance, some get better some stay the same either way you are rewarded for completion or winning, you don't get marks for pressing disband. PvE can fall under both.
It might be "difficult" but a lot do it. Why? It is easy, requires no effort.

You do not grind skills, you grind gear, feats and mods. You progress your skills. Tomatoes are not potatoes but you can still eat them together.
Players can do both if they wished or they just grind and not progress their skills at all and still manage to win.
To answer your question. There will possibly be no grind, the only thing that matters will be your skills, and that is the only thing you can progress [excluding SP's].
Current PvP system takes grinding over takes progression. If you are at the same skill level the one who grinded more will win.
You completely misunderstood the chess analogy. I will just take football for example [Real footman not american].
Would you rather be the team that beat everyone and went up the bracket and won the world cup or be the team that loses every single game but still gets the world cup.
That is the current PvP system. You can lose every single game and reach T5 and still beat a T1-3 who can play better then you.

Lets face it, you gotta be dumber than a bag of rocks if you can't complete any PVE content with the exception of Paradox and Lockdown (cause you need some teamwork).. the rest is the most straight forward thing ever. I can argue that you can get carried in PVE and get top gear without even doing anything

Tbh I would give kudos to someone who got full android by losing every match.. maybe they should get a 50 pter xD nah in all seriousness I get what you mean with progression but the devs tried to award gear only for wins and that didn't go down so well..

Not sure if you were playing around that time (saw a comment you made that you never played safehouse hostages) but it was hard for someone who actually tried and had close matches and not get any rewards..

Believe it or not there aren't many people who actually care enough about PVP and got their gear by losing every game on purpose

This is just my personal opinion from my last week of earning the gear for my villain, you do get better and more "skilled" by progressing through the different levels up until elemental if you play to win every game.. Even I got better with Bane just by doing many games with him and trying to learn everytime I made a mistake. (I rarley played Bane)

Again, You are trying to win therefore you are grinding and progressing at the same time.
In gear and in skill.
There are players who are being rewarded for soley grinding. Thought it would be hard for someone to gear up if they did not get marks for losing but some players take it to an extent and abuse it.
I have met many players who just smoked away and hid in the corner and the only response I get are "I just came here for styles" "I am just doing this to get to 90 PvP" "Eh, Don't feel like fighting just want marks"

you're pretty much repeating yourself and me. i already established my understanding of grinding and progression in the previous statement. my question asked nothing about the grind, i asked purely of progression. but, you deny the fact that there's an obstacle of those who have grinded that acts as an influence to a lesser tiered player's progression. with that obstacle out of the window in this forthcoming update, you really believe that sets a more true form of progression having one less obstacle or more? doesn't really make too much sense. i get that gear plays a major factor in the current pvp system, but it's not everything. i understood your chess analogy, i just said it was a bad analogy because it's not realistic in terms of how your speaking about a chess tournament. your "football" analogy is just as bad. considering how the gear system is structured, a T1-T3 pvper shouldn't be beating a T5 pvper anyways. but, apparently it's not fair losing to somebody well-experienced with more advanced gear and weaponry that they haven't finished grinding for yet. that's what you're saying right? so, make arenas noob friendly and dump everything vets grinded for out of door. i don't think anything in life is that easy to be honest.

A T1-T3 should be beating a T5 if they can counter and play better then him. Its fair to be losing to someone more skilled just not to someone who is winning soley due to their gear.

Yeah but the majority play to win, its not common to get people who take PVP seriously to just lose everygame.. sure you get idiots like that but the way they built it up is fairer for both.. Get full if you win, half if you lose.. everyone gets something

People will always abuse something but its a small price to pay, winning every match made the entry barrier a lot higher.. Some people geniuenly went hours without getting a win..

1 hour of PVP and no marks? many didn't like that

I am on the fence about getting marks through losses. I have been stuck in Pug raids for hours and gotten no marks .

did you not see the part of the other message where i gave the example of a punchline pvper beating an android pvper or a tank beating an equivalently geared healer? there have been players who can beat higher tiered and modded opponents due to their ability to counter; that was never non-existent. so, why make that easier for those who don't have enough skill to do it right now? the one's who can do that not now are who i respect, not the poor sports who are being catered to GU41.

Again using illogical fallacy is not the best way to further your points but oh well.
Again the skill gap must be huge from T3-T5, for a T3 to beat T5 closing the gear gap allows for better players to triumph over bad overgeared players. Pretty sure the T5 has high enough stats where even blocking is not necessary.

I'm assuming you weren't around when you only earned PVP marks for winning.

New players struggled to get any gear sometimes for hours on end.. so what if a few people abuse the system, think about it you are earning all the marks..

Yeh I know you queue up to fight etc and I understand that because of your population you can't have scrims on a daily basis, but your argument about people beating t1 players cause of their undeserved t5 gear is vaild but there is a lot of grey in there.

I agree that you shouldn't solely win on gear even if you are more skilled but lets just take an example in PVE.. Even if I'm the better DPS I can't beat someone in full t6 with t4 gear.. no chance mate.

From t1 to t3/4ish you should be doing legends anyways since they allow you to train the counter/immunities with different weapons as well..

The progression is not perfect but it satisfies both parties

EDIT: From vengance to android the stat difference isn't big at all, Ill inbox a spread sheet I made when season 2 came out which shows the % difference if you want

I was around during F2P launch, Quit because did not really see anything of interest to me, especially since legends pvp was button mashing.
That is why I have never mentioned Vengeance vs Android. The stat differences are not much. That is why I have always mentioned T3. Where the stats gap is huge.
Comparing PvE to PvP is pretty flawed for obvious reasons.

Sure scrap the PVE to PVP comparison,

My point being is that you can get to vengeance easily by playing casually in 2 weeks and properly in just a few days.. Although some people abuse the system marks should still be earned by losing else new players have no chance of progression

Sorry to say this but there is progression in PVP its not only a grind.. Sorry that you face people who don't fight cause they want quick marks but heck it can't be every game you face one of those guys right?

Well my record as of yet is 12 games in a row. Most just quit from the start or quit after their first death. [Legends]
In arenas its 14.
I just wish that the marks for losing was a bit lower, or bring back influence.
Seriously. Instead of getting marks for winning, you should get marks for either holding a node for a certain amount of time, getting kills etc. Discouraging players from quitting and farming marks and allowing for better team play due to you not having to be dependent on your team being good for marks.

Well that could work tbh, but then again think about lairs or any big deathmatch like pit or WT.. You can go some games without any kills, but I agree having a system to implement some reward on personal performance..

Then again its a bit harder to implement and it can be abused, think if two premades queue for safehouses and just farm kills for marks

Theres always a trap or something that can be abused. Sorry that you get people who duck or leave but thats why scrims were introduced.. Hopefully you will be able to get more with the new PVP season, but the system of facing top players is there.

UGH I kno I said I wasnt gonna post anymore but this guy grinds my gears...I dont duel 1v1 or 2v2 I play 4s or 5s..I use extended supercharge regen shielding deadly block and the breakout protection nothing game breaking that you consider a crutch...

and for the record you didnt school me on anything all you did was annoy me for your lack of understanding and not realizing those powers werent being used in competitive matches before HT but you wouldnt know because you dont do that I guess or started long after

With the next season of pvp, the ones who rely on all the HT mods, debuffs, pve consumables/ trinkets, etc are going to be the ones that will have to change their strategy the most or learn to counter better.

Look, we disagree fundamentally and philosophically about how PVP should be implemented in DCUO. In addition, I've only ever asked that we have the *option* to play with everything at our disposal, while those wanting the 'bare bones' experience have the option as well. You are never going to convince me that your opinion on PVP in DCUO (and it is *your* opinion) is a) fact, and b) the *best* simply because you believe it to be. In addition, I think it's hypocritical to suggest that money is the only currency in this game - time is as well, and time is what you need to improve at PVP. Many folks have more of one than another to be sure, and suggesting that one is more prohibitive to being successful at PVP than the other is simply not true. Further, to suggest that you're fine with someone 'paying' to upgrade at a faster rate than someone else because at some point they will be equal due to the terminal nature of PVP (ie, the end of gear progression) but not okay with someone using items available from a DLC purchase (both of which require spending money, and both are available to all players who choose to invest in that fashion) is curious at best.

Finally, I still have yet to see an adequate response from you about the imbalanced/unfair nature of Skill Point acquisition (noting more than 8 out of every 10 Skill Points in this game are acquired via Feats associated with DLC's - which you must purchase) and am not a fan of your 'cherry pick and defend' style of discourse. You can have the last word (and are anyway, since the Devs will be doing exactly what you want in the next PVP revamp) - I'm finished and feel I've made my opinions known. And my final note in my previous response wasn't sarcasm, it was the absolute truth (noting the two are not mutually exclusive). Cheers.

Or who will be playing Legends.