New Legends Event: Paradox Wave Begins November 26, 2015!

Well, if I were to list them, that would be blacklisting, which is against the forum rules. And I didn't say they weren't able to beat it. Didn't you read? They WERE able to beat it, after getting clown box, clipping through the map, and using weapons to hit the tyrant through an invisible barrier at the top or by glitching the door to keep it open lol. A villain league, one that was considered one of the best villain leagues in the game at the time, even posted a video on the forums glitching the EO feat lol. Forum moderators deleted the thread for posting a video of a glitch in a place where everyone could see it. The league became infamous and hated by a vast majority of experienced players as a result. I remember several threads hating on the league for glitching the raid and posting a video showing how to glitch the raid. Got a friend on my friends list who hates their hero league counterpart because of actions done by their villains. They know who they are, and I'm not going to name them out.

No. It was never about skill, knowledge, awareness, and teamwork. The vast majority of everyone who was getting it done were glitching it. That's a fact lol. You'd be hard pressed to find the few players who were running it legit. The invisible barrier glitches were being exploited for months by leagues that were considered to be some of the best leagues of the time because even they couldn't even get it done legit. Heck, just before hitting live, the only way the devs could even get it done was to turn their God mode on. That's just how broken it was.

LOL If you think most leagues were beating it legit, I got news for you. They weren't. They were taking their 86 cr members in, glitching it, and getting them full traces in just a few runs. In the process getting them EO like it was nothing. That's what even the "best" leagues were doing. It's BS like that that broke up leagues and caused a lot of the truly good players to take a break from the game. No. Dox wasn't challenging at all. Not really. Even vets of the time will tell you that it only provided artificial challenge with all the stupid 1 shot mechanics and rage timers. They made posts about how ridiculous the so called "challenge" was and how the "challenge" was just ridiculous and too much for most people. So, we lost vets who decided to take a break because Dox wasn't an actual challenge and just a broken mess of a raid that literally took months of nerfs and fixes to even make remotely reasonable for the average player.

I'll say that again. Dox wasn't an actual challenge and just a broken mess of a raid that actually did take months to fix. Heck, it was still broken 2 months after the Trigon dlc was released lol. Every new update would just break the dox fixes of the previous update. We went 4, 5 updates where something in Dox was constantly getting broken and had to be hot fixed. That's how bad it was. Take your blinders off man. Dox was just BS. It was BS then and even now today, even though I can solo it in 3 minutes or less, it is still BS. Worst raid they ever put into the game. No other raid has so far reached the pathetic nature that dox reached. Throne I would say came relatively close, but they actually managed to fix throne up relatively quickly so even it doesn't match the ridiculous nature that was dox. Dox was just horrible from start to finish.

I disagree completely again.

First of all, I never said most leagues were beating it legit.

Second, I personally didn't consider Dox broken and I considered it quite challenging. You say it was a broken mess and vets were complaining that it was an "artificial" challenge, but that's just summarizing the sentiment of the group players who were not good enough to beat Dox legit - and yes, I know that that group contained the vast majority of endgame players.

That being said, it's clear we've had different experiences with the raid. I know, from my experience, that while it was probably more difficult than any other raid, Dox was perfectly doable if your group had, again, the necessary skill, knowledge, and teamwork. And by the way, you've misunderstood my point yet again. You keep saying it was "never about" these things and then you back that up with the fact that the majority of players completing the raid were glitching it. What does that have to do with my claim that these qualities were present in the groups that were able to beat it legit?

It's a fact that the best leagues and best groups were able to beat Dox legit. Some of them also did glitch it for whatever reason and some didn't, but they were capable of completing it nonetheless. And the league that glitched the EO feat was not incapable of beating the raid legit afterwards. In fact, that very same league is 1 of only 2 leagues across all 4 servers who beat round 20 of FOS SM.

I still stand by my opinion that Dox was not only a real challenge, but one of the most real challenges in this game. I was one of the ones who was able to succeed in this challenge. It sounds like you weren't, but I don't know so I won't assume. I mean all the 1-shots were avoidable and there were legit strategies to every mechanic. If you could figure them out and execute them, you were good.

You see my league didn't exploit the wave glitch, we didn't go for eo until we could for sure complete it... Eo wasn't meant to be completely completeable in full 85 gear, you were meant to get gear from normal wave and then go for eo after you were geared. But I know since you call it dox you're from the heroes side and since about 99.99% of heroes are complete and utter scrubs of course y'all needed to glitch wave.

OK So Once again L-PvE is ONLY Giving 3 MoL for what I would Expect to be a 5 MoL. Nothing drops for mt from Tyrant and 1 Sub-Boss. Also the Pool Effect needs to be toned down a bit. Several Groups are Disbanding due to not being able to get past that Boss. Mind you it Is Doable with the Right Toons just not All.

Why is it i Feel NO one is FULLY Testing These and Reporting Accurate info to the Devs

Because groups WEREN'T beating it legit. I'd bet my bottom dollar that no less than 80% of those groups who were beating it were glitching it to beat it. I'd even push that number up to 95%. That's how rampant the dox glitching was. At the time, if you actually finished dox, especially if you had EO, many assumed you to be a cheater because that's just how difficult they made it. As I said, even certain leagues who were considered the best leagues in the game were regularly glitching it because they couldn't get it done otherwise. I'd be willing to bet that as high as 99% of those players who had EO done at the time glitched the raid just to get EO because that's just how broken dox was. It wasn't about skill or about how good you were. No. It was about glitching to get to the top so you can be "elite" lol. If you weren't closing tunnels, you were glitching it. That's how most experienced players felt at the time, and that's one reason why many found it a joke and went on hiatus from the game.

No. Best leagues were glitching dox simply because they actually COULDN'T really do it legit. That's just how broken dox was. That league that glitched the EO feat was not incapable after glitching the EO feat BECAUSE THEY CHEATED TO GET TO THE TOP lol. It doesn't matter what happened after the fact. They still exploited the glitch to get to where they ended up.

And your claim that it was a fact that the best leagues and best groups were getting it done legit is flat false. I've seen some of the best players put some more of the best players together SPECIFICALLY to glitch it because they couldn't get EO any other way. That's how it was. If you weren't closing tunnels, you became an obvious glitcher. And most were labeled as such. It was broken all around. Why do you think the devs went through maybe 20 rounds of nerfing and fixing it to make it reasonable lol? Seriously. During dox, there were like 2 or 3 nerfs a week for like 2 months straight just so it could be a reasonable raid.

I know of one league, my old one , that fell apart because of the DOX glitch. Basically the leader "forced" players to run it over and over and over glitching it till they were full gear. I and a couple others refused to glitch so we were outcasts lol. Not that I minded, I did my own thing and got it done legit . Because of how long the glitch took to complete I was getting 2 runs done with friends in the same time they got 1 done. Without the glitch they were never able to beat it

Son, villains were glitching dox just as often. It was a VILLAIN league that freakin' posted a video showing how to glitch it. Wake up, son. Villains are just as bad, and sometimes even worse, than the heroes lol. What I've seen from villains entering lpve shows that.

BTW of course you'd say your league didn't exploit the glitch. All the leagues who exploited the glitches said they got it legit. You expect me to truly believe it lol? Look at Throne. Everyone claiming to have beaten Throne elite week one legit when they were really using a quantum/clownbox glitch lol. Glitchers always believe they did stuff legit when all they did was cheat.

Everytime I Que into this L-PvE with a Villain they Always got Right for the Tyrant

Exactly. Even some of the best players were failing to get EO legitimately so they just said screw it and glitched it. That's just how broken it was. Devs even admitted to that and it took them literally months to fix it to actually be reasonable. I ran it once, closing the tunnels, got the headline, and never touched it again until like November or December of that year when it was finally all fixed lol. Just a poorly designed raid.

It doesn't need a nerf. People need to learn legend characters. Give me a set of characters to use I'll go in there with them. The pool is only challenging for players that can't use every character. I wasn't decent at all with legends when it first came out. It forced me to use them better. I don't like being in instances that long so I used them until I got better. Their might be some characters easier to use and do more damage, but it doesn't mean some are incapable of doing it.

This is an Event. They are called Skill Points. They are not gimme gimme I want it nerfed so I can get free points. Otherwise they'd be called freebies. Not Skill Points. Like someone noted earlier. It's your choice to do them, doesn't mean everyone should get a free T-Shirt for trying. What happened to a game taking some skill. Nobody respects a challenge anymore.

Uh, it's the fact that it's an event that the feats and skill points related to them are kinda supposed to be freebies. The devs actually INTENDED for them to be such lol. Lpve is intended to be something groups can do quickly and easily for fun. Mepps even stated pretty much the same thing a few weeks back. It's not a raid. It's not an elite raid. It's not survival. It's lpve. It's open to level 10 players. It's not suppose to be hard.

That being said. It's not really hard as it is. Just drawn out and tedious.

Wave was one of the more challenging raids ever released. I'd imagine the LPVE provide some Throw Back. Now anyone can walk in an solo it. People don't understand the struggle of what it used to be.

No, my claim is not false. You've acknowledged that some people (although only a small minority of the endgame playerbase) were, in fact, beating it legit. Who were those people? They were the few groups who possessed the qualities I keep mentioning. You realize you're contradicting yourself, right?

Are you saying that no groups AT ALL were beating Dox legit? Because that is so obviously not true. And since it's not, who were the people who were beating it legit? Who were the groups that were succeeding. They were the best groups, in my definition, the ones that possessed the qualities I mentioned to an adequate extent. Your logic is extremely flawed, bud.

Having something challenging as dox would make a shitstorm on forums.

Actually, yes, your claim is flat false. At the time, it was assumed you were glitching it if you weren't closing tunnels. It got to the point where you were expected to know the glitch when you were invited to a group because that's what the group was going to do. I'm not contradicting myself at all. Even the very best groups were glitching it because even the very best groups couldn't get it done legit.

My logic is flawed? Are you kidding lol? My logic is based on WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING AND WHAT A LOT OF EXPERIENCED PLAYERS WERE ACTUALLY SEEING HAPPENING LOL. The groups that were succeeding, the vast majority of the time, succeeded NOT because they were good or skilled or none of that. They succeeded cause they cheated, plain and simple.

I wouldn't say challenging per se. It was artificial. And it was broken. That's why many vets left. They didn't like the artificial challenge, and they felt it was just too much. Vets wanted a real challenge. Vets were tired of the 1 shot mechanics and rage timers. There were several threads on it. It was a struggle not really because it was a challenge. It was a struggle more because it was broken and being glitched daily and those who glitched eventually saw themselves as too good to run with those who refused to glitch and those truly good players who refused to glitch were left behind because of it.

Don't get many marks for the amount of bosses.

I love the alert though, if anyone wants it to be nerfed, get out, so sick if cry babies.

Are you serious? Do you hear yourself? You're saying that not a single group in the game was beating Dox legit. I am telling you straight up that I was beating Dox LEGIT when I was with really good groups. Are you seriously saying I'm lying?

Now, first of all, here:
con·tra·dic·tion
ˌkäntrəˈdikSH(ə)n/
noun

1. a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.
   "the proposed new system suffers from a set of internal contradictions"
   • a person, thing, or situation in which inconsistent elements are present.
     "the paradox of using force to overcome force is a real contradiction"
   • the statement of a position opposite to one already made.
     "the second sentence appears to be in flat contradiction of the first"
     synonyms: denial, refutation, rebuttal, countering
     "a contradiction of his statement"

Look at the above quote from YOU. You are CLEARLY acknowledging that somewhere from 5% to 20% of the groups who were beating Dox were beating it LEGIT. YOU said that.

So you acknowledged that a percentage somewhere between 5% and 20% of the groups beating Dox were beating it LEGIT, and then 6 different times you claim that even the BEST groups were NOT beating it legit. Then tell me, who the hell were those 5% to 20% of groups who WERE beating it legit? There is your contradiction. There is your flawed logic.

You seem quite stubborn and not likely to admit to this, so let me try to make it clearer:

CLAIM 1:

CLAIM 2:

We can see that claim 1 acknowledges (using simple math) that somewhere between 5% to 20% of groups beating dox were accomplishing it LEGIT.
We can see that claim 2 says groups WERE NOT beating it legit.

Claim 1 and claim 2 CANNOT simultaneously be true, therefore, the statements are contradictory.


As a final note, it seems that a lot of your claims about this subject are based upon your own experiences with Dox - which seem to boil down to your inability to beat it. And while the vast majority may have had similar experiences to you, a small number of us had more positive experiences and you're acting as if we don't exist. If Dox was really as dreadful as you say it was, I would not have loved it so much. Not to say that it wasn't dreadful for you and many others, but that goes to show that it's a personal opinion.

Once again, I agree that Dox was very challenging. I agree that the vast majority of the endgame playerbase was unable to beat it. I'm not even saying it wasn't too hard. I am simply addressing your ludicrous claim that NO groups - not even the BEST groups - were beating it legit. lol

A lot of so called experienced players don't have Granny Gold Star. Just saying. Very few of us. Even less got Death Proof without clown box before we were 30CR past the DLC relevancy.